"Buy it now" button, question and civility

[Ockham]

I would like to address here a little problem I had lately in the Classifieds:

I wanted to buy a razor that was advertised with the "buy it now" button but had a question for the seller: as I live on the other side of the pond and the sale was CONUS only I wanted to know if the seller was willing to be paid by me but ship to an address of a fellow forum member living in the US who can ship back the razor to me in Europe. After writing my question via PM and stating in the comments below the ad that I was sending the seller a PM with a question, somebody else hit the "buy it now" button and bought the razor. The seller answered my PM, thinking that I was the one who paid saying that it was ok to ship to an intermediary in the US.

My problem is the following: with the "buy it now" button, it is almost a "deadly" procedure for somebody who is willing to buy but has a question to wait for an answer because somebody else can come and buy the razor; this could produce some uncivil behaviour where somebody with a question will simply hit the "buy it now" button, pay but ask for a refund if his question is not answered as he wanted. This procedure will also prevent people from asking rightful question, fearing that somebody will buy the item before he can have an answer.
It is also very frustrating for somebody who is the first willing to buy but has a question, to be over-run by a second interested but who doesn't have a question but can simply hit the magic button.

I don't know if there is an easy solution to this problem... I have two, but maybe somebody here has better ideas:
1) to remove the "buy it now" button; so the first in line wanting to buy - even if he has a question - is the first who can buy the item; if he doesn't, it's up to the second in line (like in was in the old BST)
2) to clearly state in the rules that the "buy it now" is final even if somebody is in first but with a question, warning the people interested to buy the item that having a question is at their own risk - the one that somebody else coming after them could over-run their question.

Any thoughts, anybody?

[BeBerlin]

Any thoughts, anybody?

Stay up late, or buy from one of the European forums. That is what I do.

I know that this is not a solution per se, but it works for me. Sort of.

On second thought, I think it would be nice to have a form field forcing the seller to state whether he will ship internationally. Whilst on the subject, I still think that a few more form fields would be quite useful to get a more uniform description of each razor, such as width, grind, scale material, possible defects, and so on. In a nutshell, a form derived from Bill Ellis's guide on eBay: eBay Canada Guides - Selling Straight Razors - WIBNI if all ads read like this (modulo the razor specifics, of course)?

This is a Torrey straight razor with a 6/8 inch wide blade. There is very little evidence of hone wear. There is only one very small nick in the cutting edge, but it is free of any cracks. The blade has a 2 3/4 inch cutting edge and seems to be the original full length. Additionally, the blade is lightly spotted with surface rust but it is not pitted. The scales have no cracks, they are not warped, but they do have someone's initials lightly scratched on one side. The blade fits snugly between the scales.

[Del1r1um]

Man, that's rough... but honestly, I have never had the problem you are describing because I have always assumed that when you wait to use the buy it now in order to ask a question you are risking someone buying it out from under you. It is kind of a gamble. I am not sure it needs to be explicitly stated to potential buyers.

[hoglahoo]

This happens with eBay as well - I think it's fine the way it is because the seller has the choice when posting the ad whether or not to make it a "buy it now" ad

If the seller wants to entertain your offer or your question and not risk letting someone else hit the buy it now button and make an immediate purchase, the seller can edit the ad to remove that option.

[Padron]

Well,

Being this was my item for sale, I guess it's only fair I get to reply.......


I have had the W&B Chopper and the Mastro Livi razor both listed here and at another site for a combined total of well over 4 weeks. The majority of that time the sales were not listed as "Buy It Now. I did have quite a few folks tell me they were interested and then did not purchase the razor for one reason or another.

So, I added the option to "Buy It Now" in the hopes it would make it easier for some folks as many sales are carried on that way here and at E-Bay for example....

My previous experince with buy it now sales were always the first one to pay get's the item. I did not expect to receive any questions about international shipping as the item was listed as CONUS Only, 2 times in the sale thread.

I am sorry for the way this has happended and I do see your point.....I had the very same thing happen to me the other night with a somewhat expensive and rare item on E-bay and while I was trying to negotiate with the seller someone bought the item as "Buy It Now" so I too have also seen both sides of the "Buy It Now" button.

Once again, my apologizes....at the time I responded to your question I was on my way out the door and did not realize that another person bought the razor and just assumed it was purchased by you......when I got home I then realized that it was another person that bought the razor prior to my response to your PM.

Neale

[Leighton]

It is definitely a problem when two people want the razor at the same time. I have run into this problem without the BIN option as well. Someone will pm asking a question, then right after, another person pms asking a question, you answer the questions and then maybe someone pm's saying they will take it. The first and second guy both respond, they'll take it. Who gets the razor? The first to commit? The first to ask the question? Its a complicated subject. Someone's going to be left out.

[Ockham]

Hi Neale,

Thanks for coming in. I just used my little "story" to illustrate my point; I fully understand your point - as I said in my PM to you - and I am not complaining about it - I am just sad I didn't get it ;-); and this thread is not about this case or the way it was solved (it was up to you and you choose and was very kind and comprehensive), but about the PRINCIPLE of the "buy it now" button.
Being naive, I didn't realised that the "buy it now" button could be used - or would be used - after somebody wrote in the add comment that he was interested but was sending a question. I stupidly thought that it would work like the old BST: the first saying that he is interested, even if he has a question, is the first in line. That is my mistake.

What make me sad is that, in our forum where we want more than just sell razors and stuff but promote interest for the said stuff, procedure should help people and incite them to ask questions. But it seems to me that in this context the "buy it now" button does exactly the contrary: if you want to ask a question you take a high risk that somebody buy it just under your nose.

What will happen is the following: next time, before asking my usual shipping question - if it is ok to be paid by a European Paypal account but ship to another address in the US (I was not trying to make Neal change his mind about shipping but just if he was willing to use the address in the US of another fellow forum member) - I will hit the "buy it now" button and if the seller doesn't want to ship a relay address for me in the US I'll ask for a refund. I just wanted to be honest and civil and ask first... but with this nice method, I lost... the result is that I am "pushed" to act a little more aggressively toward the buyer, which I think is sad.

This is why I asked to stop using the "buy it now" button: to let people get the chance to have their question answered and to keep the buying business less aggressive.
And, as an alternative, to clearly state in the rules of engagement that the "buy it now" button cut down the discussions and questions. Maybe I was too naive, but I really DID think people will wait after writing that I was sending a PM with a question.

[Quick]

Another side of the problem is: if you can put a "hold" on something while asking questions then how long should the seller be required to have the item off the market? Exchanges may take a couple of days, there could be followup exchanges, the questions may or may not be valid, etc. The seller would be losing potential sales while the item is "off" the market.

[Ockham]

It is definitely a problem when two people want the razor at the same time. I have run into this problem without the BIN option as well. Someone will pm asking a question, then right after, another person pms asking a question, you answer the questions and then maybe someone pm's saying they will take it. The first and second guy both respond, they'll take it. Who gets the razor? The first to commit? The first to ask the question? Its a complicated subject. Someone's going to be left out.

Normally, the first stating that he is interested has the priority, even if he has a question, because he stated it first. And so on and so forth in line order. What you do as a seller - or at least as I did - was to write all the people giving them order number and stating clearly that X is first but has a question, Y is second but has a question and Z is third but want it... If X is happy with the answer, the razor is his; if not, it goes to Y, and if not to Z... it was the way the BST forum was working... and I think it is a good way to let people ask questions, wait for answers (sometime the seller cannot also answer right away) and decide... I think this is why our BST forum are different form a shopping mall.

[Padron]

Thanks Joel for your kind explanation and understanding.

To be fair to the person that bought the razor, he told me he did not even see your questions or comments in the sale thread and simply hit the "Buy It Now" button.

I do completely understand your point, and I also have lost out on items that I wanted but missed out due to someone being faster with the payment than me.

I did have this razor for sale a few weeks ago here and elsewhere, A fella expressed interest and I agreed to hold onto the razor...... turned out the the razor was never purchased so I re-listed for sale.