How NOT to create an ad

Ok guys, here is an ad we pulled from our classifieds. I am withholding the name of th eperson who posted it because that is not the point of this thread. However, it is a prime example of the type of ad that we don't want. If I see more ads like this I am going to bring out my admin hammer. The text in bold red is mine.

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Available are 5 straight razors that are in need of re-grinding due to chips on the blade. I think all or most of these blades could be saved; they simply need a little TLC and they should be back in service!
I don't think so. What these blades need is euthanasia.

A few of these are REALLY nice blades:
Really...?

-C.F. Wolfertz & Co 5/8" / Allentown, PA
-PAX 5/8" 189 Solingen Germany H. Eicker & Sohne
-9/16" Jessops Steel / Henry Althoff Co Geneva, NY USA
-Keith Simmons & Co / JNashville, TN / Made in Germany / Keen Edge
-Lilput / Wald Solingen / Ern 2375

These are priced at $13 each $5 for shipping. I think these are more than fair - properly restored, some of these blades could sell for $100 each.

Yeah I don't think so. There is not a single one in this lot that can be restored to a good condition. The only blade the looks halfway decent is the bottom one, and that has been shortened. There is not a single blade in this collection that could be considered even 'fair'. The above description is purely misleading and worthy of used car salesmen.

Any questions, please PM. Thanks!

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properly restored, some of these blades could sell for $100 each

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wow...what a selling line

I find that ad appalling. Thanks Bruno for pointing it out. SRP is not a place to sell your junk. That's what thE Bay is for.

With a little TLC and elbow grease, those could be Near-NOS one day.

;)

Just goes to show what the legendary TLC is capable of!

Great post, Bruno!

Yeah, I saw that one and flagged it. For a moment there, I thought I was on eBay!

I'm not suggesting it be brought back, and I'm really not trying to stir up trouble, but I liked the days of the old BST when honest comments were common. Such an ad back then would have produced a lot of entertaining dialog, especially if, as occasionally happened, the seller got his hackles up and defended his crap.

What I want to know is where to buy the elbow grease ? :roflmao

Euthanasia! Its too late for that, they need a good Christian burial! LOL

Anybody here qualified to give last rites!

Greatly undervalued tonsorial treasures. And they're no longer available for sale? :banghead:

:cry:

optimisum : the tendency to take the most hopeful view of matters

Got'a love it. :banghead:

Tim

:D

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Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

With a little TLC and elbow grease, those could be Near-NOS one day.

;)

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:roflmao

Well, whoever submitted the original ad ain't shy--ya gotta give 'em that. I'm always amazed at some of the razors that people put up on eBay--and even more amazed that people buy 'em.

As a complete Newb I appretiate knowing you guys police your classifieds.

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Originally Posted by jeffy

As a complete Newb I appretiate knowing you guys police your classifieds.

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As a complete noob, I'll warn you that the policing is limited to blatant cases like this. The Classifieds remain in Caveat Emptor status. Not everyone who claims to be selling a shave ready razor knows what that means, much less how to produce it. You need to do your own due diligence. You can get some sense of the seller by checking them out in the forum. Of course a high post count does not guarantee a quality seller, but they are more likely to be more protective of their reputation and will be more willing to sort out any problems.

I would like to take half a tic and point out as an AVID restorer that real problem here lies with the wording...

This ad would have been way better, worded more like this:



Five Razors for sale as "Parts Only"

The blades are pretty well shot, but the scales and parts are still usefull (If true)
I guess you could practice some restoration tehniques on the blades, that is your choice...

But if you have some blades that need scales. this lot might be for you...

Five Shave Ready Razors!

All five are in fantastic shaving condition. These would be a bargain at twice the price!
Click "Buy it Now", they won't last long!

*Note: there are some small chips in some of the razors, see pictures for details. Also, shave ready means that these have the potential to shave hair, not necessarily that they will cut your hair easily. ABSOLUTELY NO REFUNDS!

Sure, but the problem with the listing was the claimed restoration potential of these razors and that claim that after restoration they would be worth $100 each. Of course, that would only be true after replacing each of the blades.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

Sure, but the problem with the listing was the claimed restoration potential of these razors and that claim that after restoration they would be worth $100 each. Of course, that would only be true after replacing each of the blades.

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Exactly,,, the wording was way over the top

Well as a newb myself let me second that appreciation for this site and fine work of the moderators. I now know that I can buy off of the classifieds confident of the following:

1. all ads have been thoroughly examined by the experts on this site.
2. each ad is 100% in compliance with the claims it states
3. all ambiguous terms are either closely defined or precisely match mine. In this case "a little TLC" as I define it is 2.2 hours on the grinder and even though the value not stated by the mod I assume is at least .01 hours above this amount. My assumption being also that the moderator has taken in to account my personal skill level at applying said TLC.
4. any statements about possible resale value have been compared to all channels to market, prevailing price rates, and future collectibility trends and accurately reflect the claims made.
5. that all razors in the classified are for shaving and not display.

This site rules! I can now turn off my brain and eyes and not take any personal responsibility to evaluate the ad for myself......now if only they can finalize a working definition of BBS, shave ready, light pressure, and scything stroke.

That guy shoulda just put "YMMV" on the ad and be done with it.:rock:

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Originally Posted by claytor

I find that ad appalling. Thanks Bruno for pointing it out. SRP is not a place to sell your junk. That's what thE Bay is for.

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It read like an eBay ad

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Originally Posted by volleykinginnc

... I now know that I can buy off of the classifieds confident of the following:

1. all ads have been thoroughly examined by the experts on this site.
2. each ad is 100% in compliance with the claims it states
3. all ambiguous terms are either closely defined or precisely match mine. In this case "a little TLC" as I define it is 2.2 hours on the grinder and even though the value not stated by the mod I assume is at least .01 hours above this amount. My assumption being also that the moderator has taken in to account my personal skill level at applying said TLC.
4. any statements about possible resale value have been compared to all channels to market, prevailing price rates, and future collectibility trends and accurately reflect the claims made.
5. that all razors in the classified are for shaving and not display.
...

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I think the mods will toss out any ads that are outright fraudulent, but I don't think they will guarantee that statements about resale have been compared to all market channels, that all the razors are for shaving, etc...

As mentioned above: caveat emptor still applies to the classifieds...
You're just far less likely to run into a bum deal here.

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Originally Posted by HNSB

I think the mods will toss out any ads that are outright fraudulent, but I don't think they will guarantee that statements about resale have been compared to all market channels, that all the razors are for shaving, etc...

As mentioned above: caveat emptor still applies to the classifieds...
You're just far less likely to run into a bum deal here.

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Well said. At least that is the way I see it too.

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Originally Posted by volleykinginnc

Well as a newb myself let me second that appreciation for this site and fine work of the moderators. I now know that I can buy off of the classifieds confident of the following:

This site rules! I can now turn off my brain and eyes and not take any personal responsibility to evaluate the ad for myself...

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Originally Posted by HNSB

I think the mods will toss out any ads that are outright fraudulent, but I don't think they will guarantee that statements about resale have been compared to all market channels, that all the razors are for shaving, etc...

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Yeah, I think that might have been sarcasm.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

Yeah, I think that might have been sarcasm.

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Yeah. I missed that last line.

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Originally Posted by HNSB

Yeah. I missed that last line.

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Sarcasm to make a point...the point is if we can't all agree on what a scything stoke, shave ready or BBS means how fair is it to tell a guy listing an ad that somehow there is a universal definition we all agree to on what constitutes "TLC"....same with the final value of the razor (for all you know those scales were made from the hull of a UFO which would make it easily worth $100)....which BTW I believe that it is against forum rules to judge the value of razors.

I define fraud as an out and out lie...that is if he claimed that the razors were blue and they were in fact red. BTW I don't know this guy so I have no personal reason to support him, I just think that you can look at his pictures and make your own personal assessement...it certainly isn't fraud.

Thanks Bruno, ad needed nixing.

Most of us feel that it's pretty safe to send a noob to the classified's and stuff like this just doesn't belong. If it was listed as parts like Glen mentioned, fine.

The sledge doesn't skeer me ;)

CLEAVEat emptor

Hey Rockie!!!! Watch me pull a rabbit outa mah hat!!!!

Nuttin up mah sleeves!!!!

Oh Bullwinkle, that trick never works................

No....No......dis time fur shore!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by volleykinginnc

I define fraud as an out and out lie...that is if he claimed that the razors were blue and they were in fact red. BTW I don't know this guy so I have no personal reason to support him, I just think that you can look at his pictures and make your own personal assessement...it certainly isn't fraud.

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Maybe fraud is the wrong word. Maybe it was not as blatant as your red/blue analogy, but he stated the razors could be fixed up and sold for $100 apiece. Yes each person can make their own assessment, but I see no reason to tolerate such a blatant misrepresentation.

Now these are candidates for the wind chime. ;)

I agree with everything positive that has been said in agreement with the OP, and namely that as Glen said, the wording is what made the ad wrong. Had it been listed as an ad purely for spares then it would have been far less likely to have been removed; it may even have sold.

The lesson or rule should be that if a razor(s) is clearly 'dead' as it were, without a hope in hell of restoration then this should be made perfectly clear, and therefore the only use for such a particular lot could only ever be for spares, and this should also be stated.

I am apalled at the seller who should have known better than to try and pass off what is clearly 'junk' as razors with potential. Furthermore to incentivise that there would be a possible financial gain '100 dollars each' is just disgusting.

This is SRP. Members owe a duty of care to one another to responsibly sell, advise and help others and particularly newbs who are starting, effectively source a fair and accurately represented deal. Posting garbage and attempting to sell it for a purpose it is unsuitable for is simply negligent.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

Maybe fraud is the wrong word. Maybe it was not as blatant as your red/blue analogy, but he stated the razors could be fixed up and sold for $100 apiece. Yes each person can make their own assessment, but I see no reason to tolerate such a blatant misrepresentation.

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I would also like to point out that those blades would not be good restoration practice material. With chips like that, the strength of the blades is decreased dramatically. Want to see a razor explode? Take one of those blades to a buffer.

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Originally Posted by Scipio

... Had it been listed as an ad purely for spares then it would have been far less likely to have been removed; it may even have sold. ...

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Everyone has their own perception of value. To me, anything salvageable from that lot would not be worth the cost of shipping if they parts were free.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

The text in bold red is mine.

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Thanks Bruno for this thread. Based on 2 of your sig lines, maybe it should be "The text in blood red is mine." :roflmao I appreciate the work the mods do to keep this a honest place and full of useful information for the beginner and expericenced alike. I know when I started out as a noob, I might have been just gullible enough to fall for an add like that. Mods rock.:rock:

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Originally Posted by volleykinginnc

I define fraud as an out and out lie...that is if he claimed that the razors were blue and they were in fact red. BTW I don't know this guy so I have no personal reason to support him, I just think that you can look at his pictures and make your own personal assessement...it certainly isn't fraud.

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Yes it is. And if the poster does something like that again he is gone for good.

The things mentioned in that post are a blatant lie.
- None of those razors will be worth 100$, ever.
- None of those razors can be restored with a bit of TLC.
- In fact, one of them looks so rotten that restoring it would be dangerous for newb because it might explode as soon as it touches a buffer or grinding wheel.

The ad contains several outright lies and we don't want that.
If someone doesn't have the integrity to post truthful ads, then they can go.
And if you don't know, there are plenty of people in the restoration forum who could inform you about the restorability of a razor. This site is about nurturing the art of straight shaving, not about providing people a place where they can make a quick buck by dumping junk on unsuspecting newbies.

If you think it should be different then feel free to start your own site because it won't happen here.

MINT!!!!!!!

Damn it Bruno. why'd you have to go pull my ad? Now I have to sell them on ebay.

Can someone suggest a new selling pitch please, as you've all gone and ruined the original one:rant:














;):D

I don't believe any of SRP member's are foolish enough to have made such a purchase. :)

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Originally Posted by gimpochin

I don't believe any of SRP member's are foolish enough to have made such a purchase. :)

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Given the fact that many of our members (incl me :)) arrived here after having made some really bad purchase decisions, I would not count on that.

To be honest, my mistakes were not in the purchase, but in using the material. I lifted the spine to 45 degrees on a pasted strop (because otherwise it doesn't really sharpen) and I used a 60 degree shaving angle instead of a 30 degree angle (because otherwise I'd cut myself).
:o

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Originally Posted by Joed

Everyone has their own perception of value. To me, anything salvageable from that lot would not be worth the cost of shipping if they parts were free.

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Completely immaterial, the subject in question is the wording and the false description, not the potential value had it been accurately/more appropriately listed as spares.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Yes it is. And if the poster does something like that again he is gone for good.

The things mentioned in that post are a blatant lie.
- None of those razors will be worth 100$, ever.
- None of those razors can be restored with a bit of TLC.
- In fact, one of them looks so rotten that restoring it would be dangerous for newb because it might explode as soon as it touches a buffer or grinding wheel.

The ad contains several outright lies and we don't want that.
If someone doesn't have the integrity to post truthful ads, then they can go.
And if you don't know, there are plenty of people in the restoration forum who could inform you about the restorability of a razor. This site is about nurturing the art of straight shaving, not about providing people a place where they can make a quick buck by dumping junk on unsuspecting newbies.

If you think it should be different then feel free to start your own site because it won't happen here.

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Ok fair enough...then I take back my earlier post that my comments were sarcastic...they should be taken literally.

It really is good to know (especially for a newbie like me)that there is finally a place like this to buy razors where all of the ads have been reviewed by an expert and that they perfectly match their descriptions. Especially important to me is if an ad makes a projection about possible future value that it will be accurate and I can expect no less then the claim. It's also good to know that there are absolutely no bad or junk razors sold here.

This is a very good thing to know...I wish other sites were as diligent in maintaining the accuracy of member postings.