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Soap Making Escapades
Hi All,
I thought I would write up my soap making activities in a seperate thread. Maybe someone will be interested.......;) :)
So far I have made two batches of bath soap (1 to Colleens recipe on her main thread and the other from a book I purchased). Both these soaps are wonderful. The one I made to Colleens recipe is just a plain unfragranced soap but is wonderfully creamy and has made a noticable difference to my skin condition already. The second I made from the book is a morning fresh lemon and oat wake-up bar. Its so refreshing to wash your face in the morning with this beauty!
Shaving soap so far has been a slight dissapointment. I did one recipe off the internet but it is too foamy and the bubbles make your face tingle as they gradually pop (the pH is OK). I have obtained 2 more recipes however (one which includes more emmolients like shea butter and castor oil and the other is a really old recipe from the 1800's that is based on tallow) and will give both recipes a try in the next few days. The only problem is you have to wait a couple of weeks at least before you can try them.
I will report back.
Rob
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I tried making a lard, olive oil, and coconut oil shaving soap and was a bit disappointed. Shaved ok but that was it. Makes a great face soap though.
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Hello again,
I have just made a batch of sandalwood and pine fragranced bath soap. Everything went OK but had a small problem with the sandalwood fragrance oil solidifying slightly. Most went in the soap but a few bits stuck to the pan. The pine dissolved in nicely as it is a pure essential oil. I rang the soap shop and they said fragrance oils speed up trace so you have to get them in quick. Well I'll know for next time (or I may just avoid fragrance oils). I intend to make some shave soap tomorrow with pine and Eucalyptus. I may add soem patchouli as a base note too. Got the oils in a jar on some cotton buds at the moment so wil have a whiff of varios blends in a bit when the aromas have mixed.
Will report back
Rob
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Rob don't forget that FOs can be harsh on sensitive skin. That's why Colleen always warns about my favourites (CB and Leatherneck).
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You make a good point Ilija and it is something I am aware of. But have you seen the price of sandalwood essential oil :eek: . Even Colleen uses a fragrance oil for this aroma.
Tomorrows shaving soap will be essential oils only. Pine and Patchouli witha hint of Eucalyptus I think. It smells lovely and fresh (although too much eucalyptus makes it smell like one of those inhalers sticks for colds). We call them Vicks inhalers in the UK. Not sure what they are called elsewhere. I may leave otthe Eucalyptus as the pine and patchouli together smell great.
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Rob that sounds like a great scent. We also have Vicks here, so I know what you mean. Another issue with menthol and eucaliptol is that they may make your skin too sensitive. Once you have a finished product that one can shave with, don't forget that I'm a Colleen-certified guinea pig :nj
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Thats very brave of you! :D
Colleen makes some seriously good soap. I am a LONG way off getting anything i am wiling to send out for testing yet and am just doing it for the fun of it really (I sell Colleens soaps so don't really want to muscle in on her market).
I am looking to diversify the products on my website though and my own products may find their way on there eventually but the focus is on building my client base with Colleens soaps as the flagship brand.
If any of them turn out OK I will be sure to send some over your way for your expert opinion. You seem to have every soap on the planet so you should be a good judge! ;) :D
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Rob, I'm nowhere close to having every soap on the market. I understand what you mean about muscling in, but a hobbyist can still come up with some fairly good stuff. I like to experiment, so it's all good. As for having every soap on the market, I'm nowhere near that. There are quite a few freaks on B&B and SMF that have 10 times as many soaps as I do. For shaving, I've only tried 4 brands -- CH, Wilkinson, Williams and C&E (in that order of preference). Wilkinson was used as a pre-shave and I never bought another cake. Williams will be used sparingly. C&E ended up being relegated to the bath-tub. I do have 2 creams as well -- C&E Almond and T&H 1805 (Thanks Dave :D), but that's it. I know this is more than a reasonable person should be using but as I said, I like to experiment, try new things and ______insert fav. Star Trek quote here___, so don't forget to think of me when you do come up with a good formula :cool:
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Just pulling your leg pal. I know what you mean about experimenting. I am the same, I have a few soaps in my collection myslef. Prorazo, Trumpers, Colleens, Ingrams. :w
When I do get a recipe that is half decent, you will be getting the first sample :)
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The pine and sandalwood bath soap I made yesterday came out the mold just now and I am really chuffed with it. The bar is super smooth and looks like a professionally made soap. I can't wait to try this as the scent is nice too. The soap popped out no problem at all which was nice as the batch I made to Colleens recipe needed a short period in the freezer to coax it out.
The shaving soap was a bit of a rush. The soap traced really quickly which didn't give me much time to add the fragrance and stupidly i forgot to put the bentonite clay in during the panic. I should be able to assess the fragrance (pine and patchouli) quality and the foaming properties of this batch without the clay nonetheless, so all is not lost. It comes out the mold tomorrow.
The more i play around in my kitchen the more respect I gain for Colleen. Soap making is certainly not an easy activity.
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Hmmm, I just finished a batch of shaving soap to a very simple recipe based on olive oil. I added some shea butter and glycerine as emmolients and soothers. Everything seems to go just too well which has left me a little perplexed.
I mixed all the fats and added the lye and got the soap to trace, I added the sandalwood fragrance and the soap didn't seaze like it did in the pine and patchouli shave soap (it fact it went less vsicous so maybe the pine is to blame not the sandalwood) and then i brought it back to trace again. Poured the soap into the moulds (trying new molds) without any spillage and I even remebered to put the clay in. The washing up was easy too.
It all went a bit too well for my liking. :hmmm: Of course there is still time yet for it to seperate, not set or get stuck in the molds. :D
I'll see what it is like in a few weeks time.
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I'll keep my fingers crossed Rob :tu
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This is very interesting - I've been following along.
I have no interest in making soap - but here's my $0.02 anyhow.
While there are lots of good soaps out there, it seems (especially if you look at the soap reviews at B&B) that many of the most-used soaps are made by independants.
I also find it interesting to note that several soapers who get a lot of play over at B&B don't seem to get much on this site - also, I think that people on this site don't generally talk about shaving products as much as is the case at B&B (possibly because we have lots of straight specific things to talk about - honing, stropping - not to mention our highly charged political discussions :D ).
Some great (and reasonably priced) soaps can be had from the following places:
QED - Charles makes some fantastic all-natural glycerine soaps and will only scent with EO - including sandalwood. His soaps have amazing scents - the sandalwood in particular is amazing and is the benchmark I use for rating other sandalwood products. However, his soaps are so heavily scented that people have had skin reactions.
Sue St. Charles - she makes some very nice soap - I think she has shea butter and possibly some clays in the mix. I have her trade-mark scented New Spice soap - it works well, but I'm not a huge fan of the scent - its also supposed to be sensitive to water quality (hard vs. soft).
Honeybee Sue - Only sells through her e-bay store - glycerine soaps with shea butter and clays. Very few people have had adverse reactions to her soaps - even though some are scented with EOs - her soaps supposedly have a very mild scent (I've got a few en route). Also, some sensitivity to water quality.
Mama Bear - Glycerine soaps with shea butter and clays - offers both EO and FO scented soaps - several people have complained about reactions to the FO scented soaps. Her soaps are supposed to have stronger scents. Supposed to work well regardless of water quality.
If you're serious about this endeavour, you should read some of the posts at B&B, as there's a lot of information and feedback about these products. I believe that Mama Bear actually re-formulated her soaps based on the feedback she received from B&B mebers.
From my own limited experience, it seems that soaps with shea butter and/or clays seem to be the most popular.
Also, I think there is a real market for EO fragranced soaps and that people will pay more for a good sandalwood EO - QED charges 50% more for its soaps that have sandalwood EO in them - a generous tub still only costs US$15. Despite the higher cost, the blends with sandalwood EO are consistently the most popular scents.
Another scent you may want to consider trying is lavender - the EO is cheap and its nice on the skin.
If you have questions, you might consider asking any of these soapers to see if they'll help you up the learning curve.
Well I guess this counts as more than $0.02 - hope its useful.
Good luck!
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Suzuki,
Many thanks for the EXCELLENT feedback!
Colleen has mentioned the two Sues on B&B and shave my face and i intend to have a better browse around there soon as I want to sell Colleens soap to the UK crowd on that site.
I agree that Essential oils are the way to go, but while I am learning the sandalwood fragrance oil will suffice as the real stuff is ludicrously expensive and is environmentally unsound. I'm gald the other soapers can get away with charging a premium for bona fide sandalwood product.
Lavender, now theres an idea. I guess people have been using lavender soaps since the dawn of time. I even think Lavender is named after washing as Lavo (or lava) is Latin or arabic word for wash, or something like that. :D I know there is some tenuous link but can't remeber the specifics.
The old dear next door has a lavender bush that is so big it spills over the wall into my garden. I may infuse some olive oil with this in the summer and use it to make my soap. But until then I'll get some EO in.
Cheers
Rob
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I agree about the sandalwood - I know its extremely expensive and environmentally unsound.
I've also heard people say that a lot of the sandalwood EO that's coming to market isn't of the same quality as it used to be - and that some of the better FOs smell as/good as the real thing!
Sandalwood is a very tricky scent and has many incarnations - the QED sandalwood soap that is my hallmark has a very dry, intense woody smell. This represents what I consider to be a "true" sandalwood (which it should be since it contains high quality EO). At the other end, there is the Vulfix, which some describe as having a baked cookie/cinnamon scent. Then there is everything in between!
My sense is that most gents prefer the drier, less sweet smells, so you might want to make sure this is what you are getting with your soaps if your goal is to sell them commerically. Many don't care whether you use EO or FO, so long as the soap works and smells the way they want it to. Rose EO is another example of an EO that is extremely expensive and I'm not aware of any rose EO shaving products currently on the market (I'm not a huge fan of rose, but lots of guys can't get enough of it!).
I think it makes more sense to perfect your base recipe before experimenting too much with scents - just seems to be putting the cart before the horse - or the smell before the soap!
Keep us posted of your efforts.
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Well the soap came out the mold perfectly. They are uniform in consistancy, look great and smell great. They are slightly more sticky to the touch at the moment than the other soaps. I guess this is due to the glycerine holding onto the water and preventing it drying as fast. Glycerine is hygroscopic and is used as a humectant so I expected this. The soap left on the side of the pan hardened up OK so i am not expecting any problems. It will just take a while to harden and form a nice hard long lasting round.
I have high hopes for this soap. Hopefully it will foam nicely and be nice and mild.
I found a really good supplier of essential oils. I am really pleased about this and they are pretty cheap too. They have 100% positive record on their ebay shop and an aromatherapist friend of mine uses them and rates them highly. My Lavender essential oil arrived today and smells lovely.
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I'd be willing to be a guinea pig - if its all-natural (except for the FO), it really can't do too much damage.
I've never used a soap with lots of olive oil on my face, but have used it with good results to shave the back of my neck in the shower.
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If it's an EO I'd love to test it for ya...if it's an FO I think i'll steer clear since my skin can't really handle that stuff.
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Thanks for the response guys,
I have a few shaving soaps made now, some are better than others. One is pretty good and has the right lather consistancy I am after but the lather doesn't hold up for long enough. It kind of collapses so I am going to sort this problem out before sending anything out to test. All my soaps seem to suffer this problem. I think Colleen uses sorbitol to correct this problem but I am going to try some sugar as other soap makers use this to cure the problem. Sorbitol is just a hydrogenated sugar anyway so I'm going to stick with the natural stuff and see if that works. Once I have a few soaps ready for trying I will send three or four out in one go to you all.
Sorry for the delay,
Rob
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Oh yeah, and I am experimenting with cocoa butter too. This is supposed to create a good stable lather and moisturize too.
I am also thinking of replacing the clay with Aloe Vera as this causes slip too and is good at soothing the skin. All in good time though.
So many things to try......but when I have it right it will be the ultimate soap!:)
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I'd keep the clay in the formula if possible as I've never used a soap/cream that gives me such a great glide as those that use some clays.
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Are there many members here that make soap?
I have just ordered some stuff to make a batch of shaving soap but there are not many recipes available to try for shaving soaps?
I am going to try this(a variation of an internet recipe)
4 oz.Coconut oil
1 oz.Hemp seed oil
5 oz.Olive oil
6 oz.Palm oil
1 tbsp Bentonite clay
Lavender oil
Also does the inclusion of clay blunt the razor faster at all? I read somewhere that it is also used as an exfoliant, which suggests abrasiveness. Unless it is in such small quantities to not affect this?
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Thanks Nicky,
I have this recipe too but have not tried it yet. I have tried 5 now and have about another 5 to go, although this one is further down the pile based on my newly aquired knowledge of the soap world and the lathering effects of various oils.
Actually that reminds me, I have a batch I made a few weeks ago that will be ready to try today.
The clay is used in face masks as a detoxifier as it absorbs toxins. It is not abrasive. You will see when you add it to your soap or just mix a bit in some water. It really is a good lubricant.
I'll let you know how I get on. Please feel free to post your results on this thread too if you like. Its good to have another soaper around.
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Sounds like you have got well into the soap making side of this then!
Would you say that from your current experiences that it is possible to make comparable soap to commercially available products?
I think my main attraction in this field is that if i can find a good soap base, that i can play with the fragrance side, but as i have yet to do any experiments I will have to see how it goes.
I see that you are also a UK resident, have you found any particular supplier of oils and soapmaking equipment to be partcularly good?
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I think I've heard that bentonite might not be the best clay to put into shaving soap as it can have a drying effect - I think a soapmaker switched from bentonite to kaolin clay for this reason.
As for making soap that compares to commercial soap, unless you really want to learn to do this yourself, you can get GREAT products at very good prices from Honeybee Sue, Mama Bear, Colleen, Sue St. Charles, etc. Honeybee Sue's soaps are one of my favourites a 3.5 ounce puck of nicely scented (with fragrance oil) glycerine based soap loaded with shea butter, clay, aloe, etc. will only set you back about $4 (plus shipping). Mama bear is slightly more, but her soaps are even larger.
While its possible to make soap for less, you will spend a LOT of time and money before you develop a formula that is comparable to what is already available.
One other thing I would suggest is to consider adding shea butter - I've used several glycerine-based soaps and the ones with shea butter in them are hands down the best (for me, anyhow) in terms of providing a close comfortable shave and having lather that doesn't dry out or dry out the skin.
This isn't to dissuade you from trying to build a better mousetrap, just that its going to take a lot of time, effort, and money to develop a recipe that's as good as what's already available. There's always room out there for another good product - and if you're looking for something specific, the home made option may be the only way to get exactly what you're looking for.
The most interesting thing is that the home soapsters have products that rival (and in many cases shame!) the established high-end brands - and at very reasonable prices.
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Hi
I have enjoyed reading your thread. I have been developing a shave soap myself so I can relate to your situation.
As far as the clay I have tried both kaolin and bentonite. The bentonite is far slicker. If you have both rub each between damp fingers and you will feel the difference immediately. Clay is used in such small amounts (1-2% of weight of oils) the drying effect is non existant and easily overcome with adequate super fatting.
Have you been to soapcalc.com ? It is a site where you put in the oils you plan on using and it will tell you the qualities of the finished soap. It is not perfect but may save you from trying a recipe doomed to failure.
I design my recipes there and ones that look promising I will make. I try for very high creamy lather, low bubbly lather, good conditioning, and a hard bar.
Of course I can't share my recipe but I can tell you a few things that don't work. I will tell you the best soap I have made to date has no coconut.
Jean
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I enjoy to experiment quite a bit, so to play with the recipe for this i think i would find quite fun. Plus i am up for a challenge.
With everywhere I look stating that coconut is the soapmakers favourite, it is interesting that you say you don't use it.
I also love the secretive part of this (although doing research is quite frustrating) Nobody wants to give you a good recipe! ha
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For bath soap coconut rocks, but it makes large bubbles that pop quickly. For a shaving soap you want small bubbles that last. Look toward palm, tallow, and stearic acid. These are hard oils that will accelerate trace. I will tell you I gave up on a CP and went to a HP for this reason. Also don't be afraid to superfat! My best so far is 12% superfat and feels great on the skin.
I do have a business and am hoping to go to market soon so keep an eye out for me.
Are you in the US? I have tons of supplies and if you need something in small quantity that I have I can get it to you for my cost plus shipping. I know how expensive it is to buy supplies in small quantities.
Have you tried to create a cream soap yet? It is not so hard and since it stays soft you can add more stuff at any time.
Jean
P.S. You were addicted to soaping after your first batch reached trace weren't you? I just love kitchen chemistry!
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I'm in the UK, so posting them will probably be quite expensive. I did however just manage to pay 26 pounds for 500g each of Coconut and palm oil, 100 ml of hemp oil, 500 ml olive pomace oil, 100g bentonite and 30 ml of lavendar oil. So buying in smaller quantites is quite expensive.
I just have to get some lye and then i'll put this one together. when it is ready i will report on the result.
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I second what Suzuki said, it is time consuming and can be expensive but the products are better than commercial brands. Unfortunately I fear the recipe you have there will not be too good but we shall see.
Nicky: Olive pommace, veg shortening, lard and tallow (beef dripping) can all be found in Tesco or Sainsbury (the big ones for the Pommace). The coconut and palm can be found in Asian supermarkets in 500g tubs (both about 70p each). I bought all my stuff from a soap supplier first time round before I realised I could get the exotic oils from the Asian shop. The shipping is monstrously expensive.
I will second what Jean says as well. My best soap to date was actually tested today. I also found soapcalc today. This program was a revelation. It turns out my best soap (tested today) was indeed a recipe with the highest cream number, lowest bubble number and best conditioning number. I have compiled a new recipe based on this program to give me good conditioning and bar hardness too. The cleansing also needs to be a low number so the soap doesn't dry your skin and remove too many natural oils.
All the recipes I have tried in the past were useless in hindsight (although were getting better). I was just shooting in the dark. I agree with Jean about the coconut. I wouldn't agree about removing it altogether but for shaving soaps a high coconut conc is not good.
Anyway, welcome aboard Jean! I am glad to have a few soapers around to give me some tips and read my thread.
My next batch will go on at the weekend.
oh yeah and I agree about the bentonite vs the kaolin and will admit I am mildly addicted :D
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Do you think it is being too brave to try to convert this recipe to a hot process soap? I don't want to try something that is ridiculously out of my depth but if it allows me to see the recipes shortcomings faster then i may be able to try and adjust the recipe to solve the problems and come up with a better product faster.
Or maybe I am jumping in far too deep here?
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I am no expert and don't want to discourage you from trying things out but in my view you are in way too deep and at the bottom of the pool. :D
I would make a regular bath soap first and see how you get on with that before you even have a go at a shaving soap, which is more complex.
You will see that throwing fragrances in also changes trace times etc too and can curdle your soap so to begin with I would make a cheap unfragranced bath soap based on cheap ingredients you can get at the supermarket (olive oil, lard and sunflower oil or something like that). The batch will cost you virtually nothing to make and will get you used to what a trace looks like and get you experienced with the preparation (you have to have things ready and move quick when the soap traces).
With this under your belt move on and try the shave soap, cold processed. You could even do the bath soap in the morning and then try the shave soap in the afternoon or straight after if you are in that big a rush. The shave soap recipe you have is fairly simple though so it should be OK. I would still do a cheap bath soap first so if it all goes wrong you haven't wasted any of that expensive coconut and palm you bought.
If you go hot processed straight off the bat you will more than likely end up with rock hard soap in your pan or end up burning yourself in the mad rush.
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Hi
HP is not as scary as it sounds. You are only adding GENTLE heat to a batch you have made. I have found that it is best accomplished in a slow cooker (crock pot) or in a warm oven (170*F or 60*C). Your goal is to force your raw soap into a gel stage. I would not suppest trying this on a stove top unless you are very experienced and have two uninterupted hours of time to devote to the task!
When you have a recipe high in hard oils or that traces too quickly and gets lumpy pop the bowl (you need to use stainless or oven safe glass) into a warm oven. In an hour or so the soap should be in a gel stage and have a texture similar to petrolium jelly. I keep mine cooking for about another hour untill all the lye is gone. Fragrance is added at the end of cooking and/or when the soap has cooled for a short time if I am using a fragrance with a low flash point.
Above all else only do what you are comfortable with! Only do what you feel safe doing! If you have no experience making soap this may be beyond a first timer. Soaping is a wonderful and satisfying endevor but needs to be done with caution and respect for the process.
Jean
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Actually, stupid me didn't think to make a cheaper one first! I will try maybe with cheaper ingredients to get the technique down first.
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My new recipe went on today. It traced extremely fast but everything went OK.
I think this recipe will be awesome based on the soap calc numbers. Will wait and see.
My last soap was pretty good and this one will be too. I know I keep promising this but testers will be coming out soon.
Rob
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Well I'll be very interested in trying samples when you get them ready.
Good luck with the process.
Steven
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Ok, did a cheap one today, HP(I was feeling confident). I am now proud owner of 27 bars of lavender hand soap. It seems to be ok, everything went smoothly spotted trace no problems, and it cooked and went into the mould perfectly. once it cooled i cut it up. No problems.
I used 500g each of tallow and lard(which cost me 70p in total) so it was dirt cheap too.
I'm glad i did do that as a test though because now I will be less nervous about ruining my next batch, and i will use a different fragrance, as i'm not ridiculously keen on the lavender now i have made it.
I recieved the Cavendish black and Bay rum soaps today, really looking forward to trying the cavendish tonight, it smells gorgeous - Thanks Bobbo for importing to the UK.
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Hey no problem Nicky, I hope you like the soap.
My newly formulated batch of shaving soap came out the mold yesterday and cut up perfectly too. Washing up the mold produced a nice creamy lather so I am still confident the soap will be good.
Will wait a week and test.
27 bars of soap, what are you going to do with all them? :D You might want to scale down your next recipe to 400g of oils in total.
You could go lower if your balance is acurate to 0.1g.
Test the safety of the soap by doing the "zap test". This invloves putting the tip of your tongue on the bar. If it zaps you, like licking a battery, then the pH is too high and there is NaOH still present. If it tastes mildly salty then you will be OK. I was apprehensive about doing this test and getting a mouthful of soap taste but it is fine. They use soap in toothpaste to create a foam and that doen't taste bad.
I made lavendar soap once and wasn't too keen on the smell of the bars. But once I formed a lather with hot water the smell changes and I began to like it.
Steven, samples will be coming your way when ready. :)
Cheers
Rob
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Rob, I hope you havenīt forgotten about me either :cool:
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How could I forget about little old you?:D
It looks like there will be two soaps coming out for the first round of testing and all the guys that have bought Colleens sopas from me and anyone else interested will get the samples (that includes you Ilija)