Thread: To Paste or not to paste...that is the question

Originally Posted by Hirlau

What if you strop on lead while taking a bath.

Or...................what about bathing in lead while you strop???

I have a lead water pipe leading to my house that they disturbed while doing street work this summer......

The city is worried about covering their a$$.

What is left is my problem but if I chose to replace it I hope I keep the pipe and cast fishing sinkers out of it.

Originally Posted by Wolfpack34

Or...................what about bathing in lead while you strop???

Bathing in lead, while stropping a Gold Dollar.

Har!

Originally Posted by HARRYWALLY

I was told by someone who hones professionally that you should always finish on CrOx. At the time, which was early on in my honing experience, I was very confused. Here was my thought process, If you take a razor and bring it up through the grits, finish on a Naniwa 12k and then hit it with 10 passes on CrOx. Now take an identical razor, bring it up through the grits and finish it on that Escher you paid $700 for, then do the same and hit the CrOx with 10 passes..... Now don't you have the same edge on both razors????? What's the point in even having the Escher????

In my mind, the only time CrOx needs to be used is in conjunction with a synthetic hone, or for a guy trying to bring back an edge that has been slightly dulled.

Stropping on CrOx after a natural stone defeats the purpose of even having a natural stone. At least in my mind...... JMO of course.

Eh guys? Eh guys watcha think?

My thoughts exactly, coming off a natural I only ever use leather as I think I'm not feeling the hones true edge using anything else. This would include using a lead strop too.(I'm not doubting for a minute that the lead doesn't improve and edge)
I do use cro ox and diamond sprays but not a huge amount, in fact the only time I use my diamond spay on a felt paddle is for a Thiers Issard c 135 with which I'm trying to maintain without ever touching hone.
When everyone was getting the gok 20k it bugged me that some would use cro ox after. If you had to use the cro ox to obtain a good edge after the 20k what was the point in having it?
At the end of the day it's our favourite acronym YMMV.
Whatever you use to get the results you want it's all good.

Well, I guess I am not as picky as most here. I do whatever it takes sometimes I use paste, sometimes I don't, sometimes I use paste and then go back to a stone and then strop, sometimes I just eat dinner and don't hone. A tool is just that in my book. A tool. Paste is just another tool in the box. i also have a "hone" strop on my Koken. I'm not sure if it is loaded with anything or just has raised bumps like a piece of linen but it works and sometimes I use that too. i just had an amazing shave right off from a translucent Arkansas and then refreshed it on iron oxide and had another amazing shave. Hmmm. Of course I didn't go out and spend $800 on a stone either.

When everyone was getting the gok 20k it bugged me that some would use cro ox after. If you had to use the cro ox to obtain a good edge after the 20k what was the point in having it?

At the end of the day it's our favorite acronym YMMV.
Whatever you use to get the results you want it's all good.

Now, that, is an interesting observation, I have struggled with, and really gets in the weeds of honing and stropping.

I do believe, that an edge is built, layer upon layer and the more perfect you can produce each layer, flat and true, the better the finish will be, much like building a deep, flat, high gloss painted finish or buffing and finishing a razor to a Black, Mirror finish.

The differences are microscopic and probably not perceptible, for most. But it is why we fuss with high grit naturals and new high dollar synthetics, not so much for the edge each stone produces, but the layer each stone prepares for the next progression.

Years ago, Iwasaski, promoted the use of a Chrome Oxide strop after a Jnat progression, and he probably knew his way around a Jnat.

It is not the stone, its rarity, or cost, that produces an edge, it is simply, what it adds to the process, and more importantly, what your goal is.

High dollar, high grit stones, stropping with a stropping progression, and or with paste, is a function of chasing the perfect edge, the 2 percent improvement. Add to that, the user’s skill and yes, YMMV.

It would be an interesting experiment, to finish hone a razor on a SG20k and strop on leather, and hone an identical razor to 8k and strop on Chrome Oxide, (granted a number of laps) and have a blind taste test.

There is no question that pastes, can improve and edge, the question is will they work for you?

Don’t lose sight of the goal… The shave.

I think that you have captured the essence of the subject here and clarified the whole thing in the last sentence. I use a 1K then to a 6K, and then strop with CrOx (lightly) coated linen and leather. Then I move to a handmade paddle strop that puts an extraordinary edge on all my hollow grounds. I had a couple of razors professionally honed as a benchmark. Can't get a nice shiny edge like those but I actually prefer the more forgiving edges that I can put on with my process. I get Great shaves every single time! That's all that matters to me! I don't care about all the other stones or Jnats crap that everyone worships. Just keep it simple. It's only shaving your face!!!

Like you said, it's all about the shave.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

When everyone was getting the gok 20k it bugged me that some would use cro ox after. If you had to use the cro ox to obtain a good edge after the 20k what was the point in having it?

At the end of the day it's our favorite acronym YMMV.
Whatever you use to get the results you want it's all good.

Now, that, is an interesting observation, I have struggled with, and really gets in the weeds of honing and stropping.

I do believe, that an edge is built, layer upon layer and the more perfect you can produce each layer, flat and true, the better the finish will be, much like building a deep, flat, high gloss painted finish or buffing and finishing a razor to a Black, Mirror finish.

The differences are microscopic and probably not perceptible, for most. But it is why we fuss with high grit naturals and new high dollar synthetics, not so much for the edge each stone produces, but the layer each stone prepares for the next progression.

Years ago, Iwasaski, promoted the use of a Chrome Oxide strop after a Jnat progression, and he probably knew his way around a Jnat.

It is not the stone, its rarity, or cost, that produces an edge, it is simply, what it adds to the process, and more importantly, what your goal is.

High dollar, high grit stones, stropping with a stropping progression, and or with paste, is a function of chasing the perfect edge, the 2 percent improvement. Add to that, the user’s skill and yes, YMMV.

It would be an interesting experiment, to finish hone a razor on a SG20k and strop on leather, and hone an identical razor to 8k and strop on Chrome Oxide, (granted a number of laps) and have a blind taste test.

There is no question that pastes, can improve and edge, the question is will they work for you?

Don’t lose sight of the goal… The shave.

My last synthetic is a Naniwa superstone 10k, I then go to the gok 20k or whatever natural finish I fancy.
I can say with certainty if I had just stayed with 10k then a few laps on CrOx I would have been happy forever but this is my hobby and I enjoy honing and trying different finishes. Yes I've spent a fair few quid on different finishers, not because I need them or that Im after the perfect hone/edge but I sure as hell love playing with them.
I experimented with the same razor with a 10k then CrOx edge and a 10k then gok 20k edge, could I tell the difference? To me, yep, worth the extra dollars? Nope, but I still enjoy using it anyway! All though as it wasn't a blind test it could well be psychosomatic as the gok is so pricey.
I've read that Mizuochi san, who now makes Iwasaki kamisoris also uses CrOx after a jnat.
As always, we must remember it's the honer not the hones that can achieve a perfect edge.

Originally Posted by markbignosekelly

As always, we must remember it's the honer not the hones that can achieve a perfect edge.

Or...Perhaps the honer AND the stropper! Stropee? He who strops?
I just love to strop. Best time spent in this endeavour, IMO!