Is that possible that a overly heavy draw could damage the edge of the razor?
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Is that possible that a overly heavy draw could damage the edge of the razor?
Sort of IMHO
I don't think it is actually the "Draw" I think it is the draw causes you to strop badly...
Anyway that is what I have noticed at the meet ups when helping the newer guys, their stropping technique improves drastically when you move them to a slicker draw
YMMV and all that,,, as I have no way of proving it hehehe
I had a strop with a really heavy draw, and I ended up tilting the razor and rolling my edge a couple of times! I like a medium draw for some feedback but definitely avoid the really heavy ones.
Got to take this for what it is worth...I still consider myself a "SR infant" (just hit my 14 month mark).
I am a reasonably intelligent guy that is rather persistent about researching my interests.
IMHO Glen nails it. Taking it as a given that you're stropping on a quality substrate IT'S ALL ABOUT YOUR TECHNIQUE.
I don't consider myself a "Strop Master", but I do proudly admit after concentrating on my technique from the beginning I do maintain and refine/smooth a pretty mean edge. Or I should say I find my shaves comfortable from an edge aspect. Still working on my shaving angles/skills.
I owe it all to the advice of Marty, reading (and listening) to posts from guys like Glen, Tc, Utopian, and watching the Vids on the Stroptober thread. I love that thread.:rock:
***Disclamer***There's a lot of you guys that have helped me both with one on one conversations and by my reading your posts (thanks by the way). The above mentions specific fellas that have directly influenced my stropping even though they didn't know it.
Cheers
Jer
I am not by any means new to stropping nor honing nor straight shaving. I have read that in stropping the leather grabs the edge and pull it into shape however I am asking can that leather be sticky enough to to pull the edge like taffy??? Thank you for your comment!
I have a small paddle strop with oiled Russian leather lined with a felt support. Lots of draw there, forcing me to slow down and add significant pressure during the pass, particularly as the surface is very slightly concave. So it ends up a kind of stropping rolling X-stroke. At first, I was doing a significant number of laps, the result being that I would quickly wreck the edge. More recently, I've cut back significantly, maybe 10-20 laps at most, and this seems to be working.
Hmmmm Good question
I don't know the answer, we know from Micrographs that the stropping does lessen the effect of the Beard dinging the edge, maybe one of the Metalmeisters can say more about it I am pretty sure you are talking about "Plasicity" and I just don't know enough about it to answer
I am testing several strops from a well known maker and the Roo strop to me has a heavy draw that causes the razor to almost be pulled from my hand but not on all razors so i can honestly see where a heavy draw could affect an edge with bad stropping, I don't believe a faster or slower draw gives a better edge I do believe correct stropping on either is what does it.
Well strops with a heavy draw are very pressure sensitive. A light hand on a medium or heavy draw makes the stropping much much easier, add the smallest amount of pressure and you will know it right away.
Draw on a strop is like a symptom of a disease. It's not a disease in itself just a quality of the strop. It by itself has no direct affect on the edge.
What you do with the strop and how you react to the draw be it heavy or light will be the factor that affects the edge.
I prefer a strop that I can just detect the draw as I like a small amount of feedback. Heavy draw strops tend to throw off my rhythm and I feel like I could roll the edge a lot easier
In my case, with the small paddle strop, it is a visual determination that determines the pressure. Given the concave surface, I have to add pressure so that the edge comes in contact with the stropping surface. If not, it visibly is not making contact.
Edit, much later: that said, it is a more lateral pass rather than it would be normally, so the pressure on a point-by-point rather than linear basis is not as durable.
Well to be honest i am not sure it's Roo, the Vendor sent me three strops to test and the only caviate was don't cut them and he identified each one in an email and said this colored one was Roo and this was Spanish HH and this was Cordovan but the strops upon arrival were not marked so I may have the Roo and Italian HH mixed up
I have what I would consider 1 heavy draw strop and one fast strop or light draw. I agree with the fact that the heavier draw strop is pressure sensitive, I have also found that tension plays a factor. If I am a bit lax while using my heavy draw strop it gets really difficult to get a smooth stroke, but if I put a extra bit of tension on it then it helps a lot. As far as if it is actually affecting the edge? I guess I can not see how it is aside from what we know a strop to do which is align the edge, I don't believe it to be stretching or pulling the metal. JMO
I completely forgot to mention all this heavy draw stropping question has mainly showed up right after honing a fresh blade. I have a Portland Razor Co English bridle strop that is new and fast, using it last night after honing another 1/4 hollow blade I found after 50 laps it did practically nothing to the edge. So still I test shaved with it and the results told me the PRC strop did nothing to prepare the edge for shaving comfortably!!!
Is the newness of the strop the reason it affects the so little? Should I strop more laps on a new strop because it is not broken in?
Ive tested a Roo strop once and i back up what Utopian says. Not that my words hold much. It was much thinner, very flexable, not stretch to it at all and felt fast to me. I plan on getting one some day.
My Roo strop is also a fast strop. And as said a much thinner strop as well
A strop being new should still align the steel edge, possibly not quite as well as a well broken in one. But still do the job it's meant to do. It sounds to me as if your stropping technique needs some refinement. Is the strop being held with some tension? If not then it is not going to do what it's meant to
Both the Roo and Spanish HH are backed with a second piece so both are identical in thickness, I have always held my strops taught and warm the leather with my palm before every stropping, as I said I may have the Spanish HH and Roo mixed up as they are both identical in thickness and the only difference is the color, I guess I should have worded it better by saying that the Roo strop has alot more draw than the Spanish HH as in it's a heavier draw, the makers description how ever is the opposite as he advises that the Spanish HH has a lighter draw between the two.
For sake of an explaination he avised that the lighter colored strop is Roo and the more tan colored one is the Spanish HH so i am assuming the strop to the far left is Roo then Spanish HH right next to it and if thats true the Roo has a lot more draw than the Spanish HH, at least to me it does.
Attachment 270369
That makes sense, as my Kanayama has less draw than my Roo strop. But not a whole lot.
And if your stropping is on, this is beyond what I can help you with, sorry
Roo having more draw than horsehide is unusual,, every Roo I have ever used was slick, maybe not quite as slick as a Kanayama, but darn Close, just didn't feel as smooth. Most horsehide are a medium light draw. Now Latino is some heavy draw. Tc
Do you have a loope to see the edge? I'm betting more is being done than you think. Having draw is really just your sense of "feel" to be honest. I could say a strop has no draw and someone else could say it has some. But if your stropping technique is good, it's doing what it should. Not sure on your experience level, sorry if I didn't see you post it, but the more experience you have stropping, the better the edge gets. And the new strop will break in after a short while. Usually a month or so used daily
I do have a 30X loop, I look at the edge before stropping which is clean and straight then after stropping 100 passes the edge has very fine flaps of what looks like foil but the apex is straight and keen. I have taken the edge back to the stones too clean the edge up then proceed to the strop again and bam same fin like but straight edge results...crazy I only have this issue with my Hart steel razors which I have 9... all 7/8 or 13/16".
Maybe the geometry of the angles edge is too shallow and doesn't hold up to a heavy draw?
Well I'm not really too sure what to tell you at this point. I've given all the help I can.
It is odd that it's only on that brand of razor though.
Maybe send one out to one of the hone pros after you strop and have them inspect the edge. I can't see stropping leaving a foil edge, unless what your talking about is rolling the edge over when stropping. In that case your not stropping correctly, or the edge has issues. Maybe try doing a micro bevel to strengthen the edge. Tc
I appreciate your trying to help me out, it is strange but something Gssixgun said a while back and I forgot about it until recently is that Hart steel blades need two layers of tape because they get real fragile at the very edge, chipping and such. So last night w/two layers of tape I dropped the razor back down to Shapton pro 8k and finished again on my jnat with focusing on the strop being taught and good technique I stropped it. Not to my surprise (Gssixgun is always right) the edge had zero foil and the sides of the edge and zero debris of any kind. I shaved, it was close and comfortable.
I figure the edge having no back bone since the steel was so thin would flex back and forth cause nothing good to the edge. I assume the raising the geometry by adding one more layer of tape strengthened the very edge not to flex while stropping.
The edge was never rolled, the blade still shaved well. My original question was about the debris or something that resemble foil on the sides of the apex what it might be? I don't have a micro scope or any way of taking a close up of the edge.
I did micro bevel the edge last night! It improved the edge so much that there was zero debris on the edge just straight, uniform and clean...
I have been stropping on lighter-draw strops a lot lately, particularly boarhide/pigskin.
FME, the stropping goes much easier than heavier-draw strops and things are much more controllable, particularly on smaller and lighter blades. The effectiveness is just fine, IMO.
I tend to save the heavy-draw Shells for heavier razors these days.
YMMV
I guess in a way you did what I was leading up to, a micro bevel after all is do e would be add an extra layer of tape, but adding it all the way thru does change the angle to a more acute bevel for strength. And yes we need a emotional with the gssixgun is always right. Tc
At the end of the day the question of a heavier draw causing razor edge damage is about the amount of force/weight required to bring the razor from end to end. If it's a heavier draw, the more likely you are going to damage the edge. As always the answer is simple. Kanayama #70000, #80000,