Common stropping mistakes?

I've noticed some talk of improper stropping ruining the edge of an otherwise very sharp razor. I'm wondering, what are the most common edge killing mistakes a new stropper might make?

I mean, it seems pretty straightforward and simple, but still, I want to make sure I'm not screwing anything up. What comes to mind as the major problem(s)? Is the problem more of a "big picture" problem such as leading edge first instead of spine first? Or is it something smaller, like, using too much pressure? Or is it something hard to pinpoint, like lifting the spine up and rolling the edge? I guess any of these are problems, but what are the most common ones that really come to mind when you mention that a newbie might have ruined his shave ready edge by improper stropping?

Good question. I will follow the replies from the experts.

My guess would be both excessive pressure & lifting the spine, particularly at the end of each stroke, with the edge in contact as the spine loses contact with the strop.

Some common mistakes:

Too much slack in the strop. Pull it as tight as you can

Too much pressure. Anything more than the weight of the razor is too much

Lifting the spine. This often occurs at the end of the stroke. Listen, you can hear it when you do

Slapping the edge against the strop when you roll the razor. It's called rolling, not flipping for a reason.

Not stropping the entire edge. Use X strokes. They come naturally, don't try to force something else.

The ones listed above are probably the big ones. I've also killed two edges from flipping at exactly the wrong spot, so that the edge of the razor scraped down the edge of the leather handle that is sewn on to the end of the strop. But that's probably not a common mistake.

IME using too much pressure or allowing too much slack doesn't permanently ruin the edge, it just needs to be restropped correctly and the edge will come back ok. It took me an embarrassingly long time to realize this though, so plz disregard any old posts of mine that take a contrary position.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fccexpert

Some common mistakes:

Too much slack in the strop. Pull it as tight as you can

Too much pressure. Anything more than the weight of the razor is too much

Lifting the spine. This often occurs at the end of the stroke. Listen, you can hear it when you do

Slapping the edge against the strop when you roll the razor. It's called rolling, not flipping for a reason.

Not stropping the entire edge. Use X strokes. They come naturally, don't try to force something else.

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Thanks for the tips.

Out of curiosity, which of these will do so much damage that proper stropping isn't enough to correct the edge?

Strong concurrence on all these aspects as well the fact that stropping correctly can fix many of these problems. I'd say all of these problems, if mild, can be corrected by correct stropping.

I also think that a minor mistake can create a dull but smoother razor and the dullness can lead to a problem. Bad stropping technique may not be apparent to the user.

I would also suggest, stopping being a problem. The blade can never stop on the strop.

I think another big picture mistake is not knowing how a strop should be dressed appropriately. So although the technique is great, the surface itself isn't so good.

I recall doing an experiment in damage about a year ago that showed to me anyway that sag was a bigger damager than pressure.

I think the biggest mistake is speed.
Everyone here, that read the "how-to" strop articles know what to do and can do it, if you do it slow enough.
When you try to go faster without being ready, that's when you make mistakes.
All the above mentioned mistakes can and will happen then.

Too much slack is counterproductive but pulling the strop too taught MAY also be a problem. I owned a wide Dovo strop that was fairly thin. When pulled tightly, it had a tendency to have a slight concave surface. This led to the toe and the heel of my razor being stropped but not the center portion. I have a more traditional width strop now and I don't have that concavity problem with a taught strop.

Chris L

To the list of already good answers I would add flipping the razor while it's still in motion (before reaching the end of the stroke) and digging it into the strop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fccexpert

Some common mistakes:

Slapping the edge against the strop when you roll the razor. It's called rolling, not flipping for a reason.

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I had no idea this one was a problem for me:shrug: Well, I'll re-re-re-correct myself again! Thanks for the post!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Strong concurrence on all these aspects as well the fact that stropping correctly can fix many of these problems. I'd say all of these problems, if mild, can be corrected by correct stropping.

I also think that a minor mistake can create a dull but smoother razor and the dullness can lead to a problem. Bad stropping technique may not be apparent to the user.

I would also suggest, stopping being a problem. The blade can never stop on the strop.

I think another big picture mistake is not knowing how a strop should be dressed appropriately. So although the technique is great, the surface itself isn't so good.

I recall doing an experiment in damage about a year ago that showed to me anyway that sag was a bigger damager than pressure.

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Damager:D

I highlighted that in red because this is key to a newbie, being one I know.

Being stubborn it took me extra-long to figure out that getting some result was still leaving alot at the table. Switching from using pressure; edge torqued, on hard leather paddle- to spine pressure on thin hanging strop was like night and day.

Disclaimer: I'm not a stropping expert. But I do have some expertise on some things I was sincerely doing wrong until pretty recently, that held me back for months. If I can help somebody else avoid my mistakes, I will speak up.

My first mistake was to think that stropping wasn't really important or particularly beneficial to an edge. Wrong. While I can't scientifically explain to you exactly *why* stropping makes such a difference to maintaining and even improving a solid starting edge - it just does. It's not a small difference.

Speaking for my own personal case, my two biggest mistakes were:

1. Sloppy rolling/flipping. I was concentrating so much on my stroke up and down the strop that I minimized the technique I used to flip the razor at the end of each stroke. I fumbled around by manually changing my grip on the razor at each end of the stroke, which affected the consistency of my speed and blade angle, no matter how "smooth" I thought I was. Thumb roll or wrist roll doesn't seem to matter (I thumb roll), as long as it supports a smooth, CONSISTENT stroke. Doing it correctly honestly feels very unnatural at first, but it's so key, just learn how to do it smoothly. Practice the flip with the razor in mid-air, and move to a practice strop. You WILL cut your strop while learning, unless you have way better hand/eye coordination than I do. Learn on a cheap strop. Watch some member stropping videos.

2. Excessive slowness. In my own opinion, excessive slowness in the stroke is even more counter-productive than too much pressure. For me, a light stroke is much easier to learn than a solid, confident, quick stroke. I stroked lightly and incorrectly for months, because I was too slow and inconsistent. You don't have to strop in a blur to be effective, but in my own personal experience, 40 - 60 light strokes per minute gets you much farther and sharper than 10 - 30 strokes per minute. Just my experience.

With a practice strop, I timed myself. With my best "fast stroke," I was consistently getting about 25 strokes per minute. In actual day-to-day practice when I wasn't timing myself, I'm sure it was lower. My edges deteriorated slowly, and stropping seemed to have no effect. Once I got the thumb roll down, I kept the light consistent strokes, but my speed increased to 40 - 50 strokes per minute. The difference was night and day. Sharp razors finally stayed sharp, and extra-hollow razors actually improved their edge with repeated post-shave stroppings. Because of the compressed time, my number of strokes increased, which didn't hurt either. Thirty strokes evolved into 100 strokes in the same time.

Pardon the long post, but the importance of stropping really went right past me when I started this last fall. I thought stropping was "obvious" and not worth my attention. So I wasted a lot of time questioning my honing and shaving technique unnecessarily, and even went through a time when I questioned the effort/benefit of all this. Who re-hones the same razors every few days?! Learning to strop properly turned the corner for me, and let me get the real benefit of the honest time I'd put in learning to hone and shave.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FatboySlim

Disclaimer: I'm not a stropping expert. But I do have some expertise on some things I was sincerely doing wrong until pretty recently, that held me back for months. If I can help somebody else avoid my mistakes, I will speak up.

My first mistake was to think that stropping wasn't really important or particularly beneficial to an edge. Wrong. While I can't scientifically explain to you exactly *why* stropping makes such a difference to maintaining and even improving a solid starting edge - it just does. It's not a small difference.

Speaking for my own personal case, my two biggest mistakes were:

1. Sloppy rolling/flipping. I was concentrating so much on my stroke up and down the strop that I minimized the technique I used to flip the razor at the end of each stroke. I fumbled around by manually changing my grip on the razor at each end of the stroke, which affected the consistency of my speed and blade angle, no matter how "smooth" I thought I was. Thumb roll or wrist roll doesn't seem to matter (I thumb roll), as long as it supports a smooth, CONSISTENT stroke. Doing it correctly honestly feels very unnatural at first, but it's so key, just learn how to do it smoothly. Practice the flip with the razor in mid-air, and move to a practice strop. You WILL cut your strop while learning, unless you have way better hand/eye coordination than I do. Learn on a cheap strop. Watch some member stropping videos.

2. Excessive slowness. In my own opinion, excessive slowness in the stroke is even more counter-productive than too much pressure. For me, a light stroke is much easier to learn than a solid, confident, quick stroke. I stroked lightly and incorrectly for months, because I was too slow and inconsistent. You don't have to strop in a blur to be effective, but in my own personal experience, 40 - 60 light strokes per minute gets you much farther and sharper than 10 - 30 strokes per minute. Just my experience.

With a practice strop, I timed myself. With my best "fast stroke," I was consistently getting about 25 strokes per minute. In actual day-to-day practice when I wasn't timing myself, I'm sure it was lower. My edges deteriorated slowly, and stropping seemed to have no effect. Once I got the thumb roll down, I kept the light consistent strokes, but my speed increased to 40 - 50 strokes per minute. The difference was night and day. Sharp razors finally stayed sharp, and extra-hollow razors actually improved their edge with repeated post-shave stroppings. Because of the compressed time, my number of strokes increased, which didn't hurt either. Thirty strokes evolved into 100 strokes in the same time.

Pardon the long post, but the importance of stropping really went right past me when I started this last fall. I thought stropping was "obvious" and not worth my attention. So I wasted a lot of time questioning my honing and shaving technique unnecessarily, and even went through a time when I questioned the effort/benefit of all this. Who re-hones the same razors every few days?! Learning to strop properly turned the corner for me, and let me get the real benefit of the honest time I'd put in learning to hone and shave.

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Thanks for this. This is exactly what I was looking for. You can definitely put me in the boat with the newbies who didn't think stropping was/is THAT important. I just looked at it as "something you do before you shave." I definitely go very slow (never timed, but wouldn't be surprised if it's ~15-20 strokes per minute - I stroke very slow and consistent and flip very slowly so as to not slap the blade down and try to make sure to keep the blade level through the end of stroke, etc), and I don't think my overall technique is all that great. I was just going to let it come naturally over time, because I figured it didn't make that much difference. I'm definitely going to sit down and practice even more and try to get it down better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I think another big picture mistake is not knowing how a strop should be dressed appropriately. So although the technique is great, the surface itself isn't so good.

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Alan, can you elaborate on proper dressing of the strop. I have pretty much used mine as is. :shrug:

One thing I can contribute to this thread is my experience with different ways of holding the razor while stropping. In this excellent barber manual in the help files honing and stropping are the topics covered. (this displays sideways on many computers but really is worth printing out to make sense of it IMO)

The manual says that the razor should be held perfectly flat against the strop with the strop held taut.

The pressure applied to the razor must be heavy enough to feel a firm drag or draw. (on a horsehide A.K.A. shell strop I can't see how this is possible without applying too much pressure :shrug:)

"The razor is held with the thumb on top of the shank and rolled in the hand without moving the wrist. This not only makes for equal pressure on both strokes but also makes the act more graceful and easy."

I had been at forum member and IMO honemiester The Topher's house and he had watched me strop. He said that I was rolling my wrist and that was an incorrect technique. I then re-read the barber manual and started working on breaking the habit.

Then in this thread here I discovered that holding the razor between thumb and the center of the first pad of the forefinger as described by ben.mid and gssixgun gave me the ability to strop the razor much more gracefully and easily then I had been using my method of holding it between the thumb and the second joint of the forefinger.

Amazing how slight changes can affect the feel of the stropping. Holding it like that gave me much more sensitivity to how much pressure I was putting on the blade.

BTW, the manual recommends "First learn to turn or flip the razor by holding it in one position without making the strokes". For a new guy that seems like a good idea.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fccexpert

Some common mistakes:

Too much slack in the strop. Pull it as tight as you can

Too much pressure. Anything more than the weight of the razor is too much

Lifting the spine. This often occurs at the end of the stroke. Listen, you can hear it when you do

Slapping the edge against the strop when you roll the razor. It's called rolling, not flipping for a reason.

Not stropping the entire edge. Use X strokes. They come naturally, don't try to force something else.

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+1 on these points and a nice even stroke. The stroke should be comfortable and rythmic. I see a lot of guys want to go incredibly fast like in the movies. Definite no-no. Too slow is not good either. Nice steady stroke with the blade completely flat on a taught strop will work. You can actually hear the edge go from a higher pitch to a duller pitch as you strop the razor. More so right after honing.

And believe it or not, we still see people rolling the razor on the edge vise the spine. Don't do dat!!

Have fun,

Lynn

The hardest part for me so far, and the reason I feel the need to go so slow, is that it's so easy for the blade to not be perfectly flat on the strop. A tiny tiny movement, up or down, of the handle, and the blade is not flat on the strop. Plus, if the strop is twisting in it's swivel a little between or during a stroke, you have to constantly be adjusting the handle of the razor to adjust the levelness of the blade. I have no idea how some of you do it so fast and ensure that the blade stayed perfectly flat through your quick stroke! It's easier if you use some pressure, but to do no pressure and do it, it's hard! I need a lot more practice I think.

As an aside, should I be using soap on my smooth cotton strop from Tony Miller? Or should I just use it as it came (dry)?

I use my strop from Tony as it was received. I have other dedicated pasted strops. I believe it is best to leave my main strop as is.

Speed comes with practice. It develops as a person becomes proficient with the stroke. I always set my strop up on a door knob. I believe that it approximates the height that barbers used when the strop was hooked to their barber's chair.

I think that is an optimal height to work from and I do think it makes a difference. YMMV. I see pics of guys who have their strop at a higher level and are working even at shoulder height. I think that would make it more difficult although I must confess I haven't tried it.

Practicing flipping the blade without moving the arm may be a good thing for beginners. The barber manual instructs that to be done . I am well beyond that but if someone is having trouble with turning the blade it sounds like a good way to get the hang of it.

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Alan, can you elaborate on proper dressing of the strop. I have pretty much used mine as is. :shrug:

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I believe its important not to overpregnate the strop with gunk, particularly anything that interferes, even at an unobservable level, with its flatness.

I think there is also a correlation between the strops slickness and the number of passes required to attain a good edge.

I'm going to do some experimenting with "wet" oily leather soon and see what that does.

I like to oil my strop then let the dry naturally.

Experimenting with the height your strop is mounted at can significantly alter stropping performance.
I set my strop hook height by standing upright and to attention so to speak. Then with my arm straight down and fist clenched, mark to the underside of the fist and attach hook to this level.
With the end of the strop hooked on and the hand end pulled taught to my belly button, I get a good down angle to the strop and my hand holding the razor wont stray over the decals or strop iron work. This is with a body attitude of approx 40 deg to the strop.
For some reason I also set my pasted strop hook at nose tip height. This height can work for finishing strops but the razor flip does require wrist action at the top of the stroke.
Making sure the strop is locked to the body at held end helps by allowing you to use your body weight to apply tension to the strop, not with the arm. This take one factor out tof the process leaving you free to concentrate on razor stroke and pressure.

PuFF

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pjrage

The hardest part for me so far, and the reason I feel the need to go so slow, is that it's so easy for the blade to not be perfectly flat on the strop. A tiny tiny movement, up or down, of the handle, and the blade is not flat on the strop. Plus, if the strop is twisting in it's swivel a little between or during a stroke, you have to constantly be adjusting the handle of the razor to adjust the levelness of the blade.

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how do you mount your strop? in the beginning I had the same type of movement using a thong on a door knob, then i mounted a permanent ring on the wall slight above waist high, and now its solid, no movement, and much more productive stropping

I actually have mine mounted on my towel bar in the bathroom. It's roughly in the middle of my chest. I've really been buckling down and practicing my stropping, and it's much improved. I truly feel like I'm getting the right strokes now, and my shaves have really seen a difference. I've actually been able to pick up speed too. My original problem, I think, was my flipping, but I've gotten a much better feel for it.

I think I'm going to try installing a hook at waist level and see how that feels too.

Have been following this thread with a great amount of interest, especially after reading other threads by members who claim that stropping is KING. I have taken to listening a lot more to the sounds the razor makes when I strop. Here are some examples from the wiki on stropping:

Razor stropping - Straight Razor Place Wiki

There is a lot more to this than I originally thought. Challenging to say the least. I like it that way.

Many thanks (literally, I've left many) to everyone who has contributed their experience and knowledge on this thread. I'm also coming to the conclusion that my straight shaving leaves a lot to be desired because my stropping does--though I also think one of my blades needs honing, the other was represented as shave-ready by the SRP member I bought it from, and I feel sure that it is. (Or was, if I haven't damaged the edge too much by my inept stropping! :gaah:) You've all given me a lot of useful information to practice with this weekend.

Rich

I think pull your stroke at an angle with the point end trailing, if you strop completly perpendicular it is easier to roll the edge. This works for me.
Mike

Thanks to all of you who've posted. I've learned a lot.

In my experience, the amount of pressure used depends on the type of strop. With softer surfaces, light pressure seems to work for me; with harder surfaces some firm but moderate pressure is necessary. When I started to use firm, moderate pressure on my Illinois 361 strop I got much sharper and smoother edges on my razors. This seems to be especially important when preceeded with a few passes on the canvas.

Hope this helps,
Jeff

I notice some comments regarding "slapping" at the flip-end of the stroke. In my experience this does not cause any ill effects to the edge. If this was a problem then Rolls Razors would not have invented their razor. :) If you maintain a constant tension to the strop and you perform a smooth 'flip' with the razor, there will be no damage.
On the horse hide having no draw point. This is very true when the strop is new and not dressed etc. With a good dressing, horse can have as much draw as latigo., even if only given a good oiling (not a recomendation btw :fim: )
Stropping has always been the poor brother to honing on this forum, but I sense that the playing field is leveling some what lately which is a good thing.

PuFF

A few people have referenced the linen sides of the strops...

My strop has a canvas side... not linen (latigo hide on the other)... will the canvas side have the same effect as linen would?

Tried varying my height... finally got a good TPT on parts of my blade, but not the center portion yet. Hopefully I can bring the blade back to a good edge without having it rehoned...

Definitely an interesting (and painful) process...

- HJ

From what i recall reading it doesnt matter what kind of fabric it is...they are all about the same ...

On a strop, linen has become a generic term for all fabric side