Conditioning Kanoyama Canvas: Iwasaki

Folks,

I have 2 new Kanoyama canvas just laying around and there’s always considerable discussion about how to condition one and how good it is or isn’t. But I’ve never seen anyone post about using Iwasaki’s recommended steps for linen/fabric So lets get started.

The first image is the new, unconditioned strop. As you can see, it’s hard and stiff. The second image is one that I’ve washed in a washing machine and have been using for years. Both are dry. The used one is the one that’s my daily driver and has been used to maintain the Filly 14 Sub Cero with 110 shaves on it as of yesterday morning. Ideally, Iwasaki’s steps should turn the new strop into one that’s as soft and limber as my old beater.

Here are Iwasaki’s steps for conditioning linen/fabric.

9. Linen maintenance/Preparation

1. Wash with a stiff, soapy brush

2. Remove the excess water and lay out, damp, on a table. Take a wooden mallet and tap evenly along the length of the strop using the curved side of the mallet, making sure to smooth out any creases or bends.

3. Wash with a stiff brush.

4. Rub firmly with round cosmetic soap.

5. Rub with a pumice stone to remove any fabric balls or loose threads.

6. Wash with a stiff brush.

7. Rub firmly with round cosmetic soap, again.

8. Smooth the surface with a nagura stone.

9. Rinse.

10. Let dry for two to 3 days.

11. Apply soapy lather with a brush [Shaving brush - JDR]

12. Roll firmly with a beer bottle.

Repeat 11 and 12 above three times.

Here are my materials.

Top, a stiff brush.
Middle, left to right, a bar of L’Occitane milk soap, a good facial soap and A hard milled soap. Next a pumice stone, and a nagura.
Bottom, an aluminum mallet with a curved face (I don’t have a wooden one).

The soap used for washing was Martin de Candre Marseilles soap. Marseilles soap is recommended for fine fabrics/woolens and is a mild soap.

I have completed the first nine steps, and the strop is drying.

The mallet step seems useful. The Kanoyama has an edge on it that’s raised a bit, and it’s a bit larger on one side than the other. The mallet tapping seemed to flatten that edge out. I also kneaded and sharply rolled the canvas while washing it, and stretched it a bit With my hands after washing.

Nice tutorial. I never bothered with mine. I have a few vintage linen as well as my go to a flax linen from Torolf at Scrupleworks. Me and a few others bought 4 to save on the shipping some years back.

Thanks Bill, it’s an interesting project for staying at home, especially since I have all the materials, or very close to it.

I need to go get some beer so that I’ll have beer bottles....

Thanks for doing this Steve. It will be not ce to now how it turns ut.

Thank you Jerry!

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Originally Posted by Steve56

Thanks Bill, it’s an interesting project for staying at home, especially since I have all the materials, or very close to it.

I need to go get some beer so that I’ll have beer bottles....

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I've been told that empty whiskey bottles work just as well.lol

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Originally Posted by Bill31521

I've been told that empty whiskey bottles work just as well.lol

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"Repeat 11 and 12 above three times."

As you would repeat 3 times the bottle would get gradually lighter as you went and gradually work it in.

Sounds like a plan.

If anyone tries this let us know how it works!:D

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Originally Posted by 32t

"Repeat 11 and 12 above three times."

As you would repeat 3 times the bottle would get gradually lighter as you went and gradually work it in.

Sounds like a plan.

If anyone tries this let us know how it works!:D

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I think that I would want to refill it so that the change in mass wouldn’t be a factor, lol.

The stop was bone dry this morning, so I did not let it dry ‘2-3 days’, there was just no point in it. The weather yesterday was mid 80’s F, breezy, sunny, and 30% humidity, so it wasn’t going to get any drier than it was this morning.

I lathered it up and rolled it with a bottle 3 times. The purpose of this is unclear from the translation. I suppose that it could be for 2 reasons, if you can think of others, please let us know.

1. It stretches and flattens the strop one final time, with the soap lubricating the fibers. The strop is flatter at the edge ‘bead’ than my user, which is a good thing I think.

2. The lather is intended to be left in the strop serving as something like the Dovo white paste and similar stuff that we see in vintage linens and cottons. I rinsed it out. Soap is not in itself harmful to steel, but it can hold moisture as we know, and if you don’t clean all the soap residue off your razor, it will patina. I didn’t want to have to clean the razor (again) after stropping on canvas so I rinsed the soap out. I was using MdC which rinses very cleanly. I can always re-lather it or rub it with the bar soap, and maybe I’ll do that on one side and see if it makes a difference vs clean.

Observations and going forward:

The strop is now as limber as my machine washed strop.

It did shrink about 1/2” or 12mm during the process. It’s the same length as my machine washed strop though I kneaded and stretched that one as it dried.

The edge bead is flatter than my user, probably due to the mallet - I could tell that the edge bead flattened after being tapped with the mallet in step 2.

There’s not much difference that I can tell between machine washed and this process except that the edge beads are flatter. You could always do the mallet thing and roll it with the bottle while it’s damp out of the machine.

The end cap did not come off.

I’m undecided whether to raise a nap with the Atoma plate, but probably will. It mostly wears off over time anyway.

Any suggestions, ideas, comments?

Thanks a bunch for a very useful post. :)

I do disagree with your reasoning to get rid of the soap. In my limited experience I have noticed some sort of wax/soap in all my linens.
A number of years ago I went to the Marvy Co. which is a few miles from me and long story short I walked away with a pile of NOS linen strops. They are all waxed/soaped.
I have never seen any damage to my razors that I could attribute to the linen part of my strop.

Just my 2¢ :)

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Originally Posted by randydance062449

Thanks a bunch for a very useful post. :)

I do disagree with your reasoning to get rid of the soap. In my limited experience I have noticed some sort of wax/soap in all my linens.
A number of years ago I went to the Marvy Co. which is a few miles from me and long story short I walked away with a pile of NOS linen strops. They are all waxed/soaped.
I have never seen any damage to my razors that I could attribute to the linen part of my strop.

Just my 2¢ :)

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You’re most welcome sir!

I think all the old linens/fabrics I have also have some sort of treatment on them but I doubt it’s soap unless the end user put it on. I’m cleaning an old piece now that the white ‘stuff’ had hardened to the point that the strop felt grainy and visible chunks came off when hand rubbed or the cloth flexed. I machine washed, cleaned, soaked it in lacquer thinner, and still, when I put a test Gold Dollar on it, small straight shiny sections would appear at the apex. Still not clean enough, so now it’s getting soaked in methanol to try and get the rest of the old compound out. The first soaking was dirty with scum floating on top. That’s not to say all of it is bad or needs to be removed, but this one had the compound hardened and or dirty to the point remediation is necessary if I want to use it. I could just use my Tony Miller or Kanoyama, but it’s kind of fun to clean ip a 100 year old linen and return it to service, though there’s no real reason to spend that much effort on it.

I’ve talked with my coticule friends (who prefer flax linen) and all are using their Torloff, Westholme, Tony Miller, etc without any white paste, soap etc and are happy with the results. My Kanoyama that I’m using with the Sub Cero with 110 shaves is clean. I wonder what the purpose of the fabric dressing really was, I’ve never seen anything about why it’s there to begin with. Did it contribute to the function, or did it just waterproof, improve the stropping feel, or what?

I think Id be wanting to remove the soap too. I washed mine a couple times and reglued the end piece. It work fine for me. But i just bought another Kanayama so thanks for the thread Steve. I hink I will wash my next one too. Machine wash with fabric softener that is.

So I have an old strop from my Grandfather. Looks like it was marked from a hardware store out of port something Texas. Can't fully make it out. I just added some leather conditioner and then some neatsfoot oil to it years ago to take out the dryness and it still works lovely today. Genuine Shell horsehide. Genuine Royal Quality Linen. The linen I never touched. Has a soft quick slick shine to it, but don't detect any soap or anything in it. This strop based on my Grandfather passing in the late 80's in his 80's and I know from my mom he hadn't used it since see was small and his only strop this is probably a pretty old strop. Close to 100 I would think. It was really in great almost usable condition it just needed softening with oils to go. Now the linen may have something in it and I just don't know, but if there is I think just makes it slicker and softer.

So I have a Kanoyama on the way as you know Steve. I think I will wash the linen in washing machine and do the wood mallet treatment and roll with bottle. Sounds like that will be the easiest yet closet to his technique. May try rubbing with nagura too.

Tom,

Just be sure that the machine isn’t a spindle type, that spindle makes me uncomfortable. TBH, I don’t know if a spindle machine is bad.

Use the mallet on it, especially the edges while it’s still damp and maybe condition the surface with an Atoma plate when it’s dry. You should be good to go.

Takeshi’s instructions are basically Iwasaki’s, but Takeshi mentions machine washing.

I just used mine the way it came out of the wrapper, hard as hell but seemed to not damage the edge and it has softened a lot over the few years I have had it.

I thought about washing it but did not want it to shrink

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Originally Posted by Jnatcat

I just used mine the way it came out of the wrapper, hard as hell but seemed to not damage the edge and it has softened a lot over the few years I have had it.

I thought about washing it but did not want it to shrink

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You could just cut a little off the leather to make the lengths match Will, rofl.

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Originally Posted by Steve56

Tom,

Just be sure that the machine isn’t a spindle type, that spindle makes me uncomfortable. TBH, I don’t know if a spindle machine is bad.

Use the mallet on it, especially the edges while it’s still damp and maybe condition the surface with an Atoma plate when it’s dry. You should be good to go.

Takeshi’s instructions are basically Iwasaki’s, but Takeshi mentions machine washing.

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Oh it is a spindle type.

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My best guess is that the linen was treated with wax or hydrogenated tallow (purified and white) and maybe some fine talc or bluing for a white color. All of those were commonly available at the time. The purpose of the wax/tallow would have been to add some stiffness and the talc for coloring and a bit of abrasion.

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Originally Posted by rideon66

Oh it is a spindle type.

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I believe that I’d stick to hand washing it, that seems to work as well.

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Originally Posted by Steve56

You could just cut a little off the leather to make the lengths match Will, rofl.

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Hmmmm I’m thinking not Steve.....but thanks for the idea, maybe you can try cutting yours and let me know how it turns out, I also need to send you stone to work with and tell me what you think, I’m not having much luck with it

Most cloth has some type of sizing in it to shape and size the fabric, especially natural fibers, many use starch, waxes, and other stiffeners. Done to individual yarn prior to weaving to strength and smooth the yarn during the weaving process, and again to the finished weave to maintain size and shape. The woven linen is purchased in bulk by the strop makers, already sized. Some may have added additional sizing or paste for performance.

If you want to clean linen it must be washed several times, one or two cycles in a washing machine will not get it clean. The dirt and grit are in the weave. Soaking in soapy water, scrubbing with a stiff brush, and soaking in clean water over night and vinegar will remove the soap. It is clean when your rinse water is clean.

Rolling on a suspended rolling pin will stretch the weave back to original length. Roll when damp several times until dry to length. Rolling will also loosen the fibers and weave to make the linen soft very pliable and much more effective for stropping.

When damp, the linen will stretch, you can also stretch to length and block by clamping linen to a board or flat surface. Blocking is routinely done with clothing, particularly heavy weave sweaters to shape and size clothing.

I have some washed linen stretched to the length of the leather and some a bit shorter. It makes no difference in performance. Rolling on the other hand, softens the linen and improve performance dramatically.

Look at your linen with magnification, if you see black spots in the weave it is dirt and grit, probably larger than you lowest grit stone in the weave and will scratch your bevel and chip the edge.

That’s been exactly my experience Marty, I’m cleaning up a vintage piece just for the fun of it, but ‘fun’ it certainly hasn’t been. Out of the box it was dirty and gritty, and chunks of white material came off like sand. Two - three trips In the washer didn’t do much. I washed it 6-7 times in lacquer thinner and that began to move whatever white stuff was in it - that’s all I had given the scarcity of alcohol. I thought that it was pretty clean after that and hand washing, but putting a shave ready Gold Dollar on it resulted in straight shiny segments on the edge - it still had coarse grit in it. And hey, this is what Gold Dollars are for.

I have since bought a 5-gal drum of 99.5% methanol racing fuel, methanol is a better solvent, won’t penetrate most nitrile gloves but is more expensive given hazard fees and shipping. I’ve soaked the linen 3 times now in a mason jar an the methanol is beginning to get It pretty clean. It’s on soak 4 now. The first 2 methanol washes had cloudy white solids in them.

I’ll update the thread if I ever get the darn thing clean enough to strop on, lol.

This is of course not practical except as an educational experience, but I actually bought the methanol to ‘de-oil’ Japanese naturals that had been used with honing oil/solution, and it excels at that, much better than isopropyl, though methanol is more toxic.