bad idea

[groovyd]

Recently I decided to 'clean' my used Kanayama 80000 which had some stains on it using Lexol leather cleaner and some water thinking 'the best leather cleaner in the world' would do the trick and following the directions closely rinsing with water and all.

I now know this was a bad idea as it is as stiff as a board and has no draw, like stropping on cardboard instead of the velvety soft luxurious feel it used to have. I ordered some neatsfoot oil from SRD hoping this will put it back into shape. Is it already too late? Is there anything I can do to reverse the damage? I am pretty pissed at myself as it used to be a nice strop and did a great job except for the look of the staining getting on my nerves. Worse the staining didn't really even come out.

[Lazarus]

I realize it is a bit late to discuss what you should have done. Based upon the below I am thinking the oil may just make it worse. I would ask Jim Rion for his advice on what to do at this point.

From Strop Details and Care | Eastern Smooth

Naomi-san recommends no oiling, as this can alter the strops finish deeply. Instead, if you feel the surface of the strop is dirtied, glazed or it isn't giving the edge you want, try this:

Lay the strop face-up on a flat surface.
Get a smooth, soft cloth, like an old clean t-shirt. Do NOT use terrycloth.
Wet the cloth in luke-warm water and wring it out well--the cloth should only be damp.
Gently wipe the surface of the strop in one smooth motion. Don't scrub or press! Be careful not to get any water on the sides or back of the leather, as this can lead to hardening.
Allow the strop to dry thoroughly. If the surface still feels like it's not quite right, repeat.

[groovyd]

I realize it is a bit late to discuss what you should have done. Based upon the below I am thinking the oil may just make it worse. I would ask Jim Rion for his advice on what to do at this point.

From Strop Details and Care | Eastern Smooth

Naomi-san recommends no oiling, as this can alter the strops finish deeply. Instead, if you feel the surface of the strop is dirtied, glazed or it isn't giving the edge you want, try this:

Lay the strop face-up on a flat surface.
Get a smooth, soft cloth, like an old clean t-shirt. Do NOT use terrycloth.
Wet the cloth in luke-warm water and wring it out well--the cloth should only be damp.
Gently wipe the surface of the strop in one smooth motion. Don't scrub or press! Be careful not to get any water on the sides or back of the leather, as this can lead to hardening.
Allow the strop to dry thoroughly. If the surface still feels like it's not quite right, repeat.

Thanks but I am already 3 steps past hard. I need the remedy.

[bharner]

The neatsfoot should help. Just slowly work it in and let it sit a bit between applications so you don't get too much in to it. Your draw will probably be very different, but it should still work.

[JimR]

NOOOO!!!! Don't oil the strop. These aren't your regular old leather.

Email me at jim (at) easternsmooth.com and we'll see what we can do.

[medicevans]

You ordered neatsfoot oil?

[PhatMan]

JimR,

Dr Iwasaki mentions using neatsoot oil on a water soaked strop in your fine translation of his Magnum Opus "Honing Razors and Nihonkamisori"

Quote :

7. How to Soften a Hard Strop
(1) Fill a washbasin with water and submerge the strop, without its metal parts, in the water and
thoroughly knead it. Remove the strop from the water, and then by pressing and kneading it, it
will soften.
(2) Lay the wet strop flat on a board. As it dries, it will shrink like when you dry kelp, so if you
take a beer bottle and roll/press the face of the strop it should flatten out.
(3) If it starts to ripple, sandwich it between two boards and press from the front, and it will
straighten out.
(4) Apply neetsfoot oil to the surface of the damp strop.
(5) Allow it to dry for two to three days and it should be soft.
(6) If you apply too much oil, soak the strop and the water-soluble neetsfoot oil will be drawn

Is this treatment not recommended for the very fine Kanayama strops ?

Have fun !

Best regards

Russ

[Neil Miller]

So Dr Iwasaki reckons that neatsfoot oil is water-soluble - inscrutable!

The proper, prime, 100%, original - call it what you will - neatsfoot oil is refined animal oil and is not water soluble. From a refinery analysis:

Typical Analysis:
Charge: None
Color (NPA): 2.0 Max.
Free Fatty Acids: 0.50% Max.
Iodine Value: 65 - 85
Specific Gravity @ 25ºC: 0.905 - 0.919
Pour Point: 35ºF Max.
Cloud Point: 40ºF Max.
Lbs./Gallon: 7.60+/-0.05

Product Care:
Solubility: Insoluble in water
Storage: No special instructions
Shelf Life: 12 months when properly stored

Application:
Neatsfoot oil is used as a fatliquor additive. It gives leather extra lubricity, a rich feel and improves leather tensile strength. Normally 2-4% Neatsfoot oil is used with anionic or cationic fatliquors to achieve the desired effects. Neatsfoot oil is used in finishing to give leather a rich, oily feel and darker color.

The clue to Dr Iwasaki's erroneous statement may be found here - the fatliquoring process depends upon the emulsification of the oils used in order that they penetrate the leather, so we are not talking about pure neatsfoot oil but a compounded formula in which other agents make the oil water soluble. Some neatsfoot is sold as a 'blend' or 'conditioner' - ie not pure, so we are not totally clear whether its attributes are due to neatsfoot oil or one or more other oils in the blended product. However, even oil emulsions are only water soluble whilst both water and oil are present, as this type of emulsion is a fine suspension of oil droplets in water, a medium with which it will not mix. Once the water dries out the oil droplets merge and are not water soluble.

Regards,
Neil

[JimR]

JimR,

Dr Iwasaki mentions using neatsoot oil on a water soaked strop in your fine translation of his Magnum Opus "Honing Razors and Nihonkamisori"

Quote :

7. How to Soften a Hard Strop
(1) Fill a washbasin with water and submerge the strop, without its metal parts, in the water and
thoroughly knead it. Remove the strop from the water, and then by pressing and kneading it, it
will soften.
(2) Lay the wet strop flat on a board. As it dries, it will shrink like when you dry kelp, so if you
take a beer bottle and roll/press the face of the strop it should flatten out.
(3) If it starts to ripple, sandwich it between two boards and press from the front, and it will
straighten out.
(4) Apply neetsfoot oil to the surface of the damp strop.
(5) Allow it to dry for two to three days and it should be soft.
(6) If you apply too much oil, soak the strop and the water-soluble neetsfoot oil will be drawn

Is this treatment not recommended for the very fine Kanayama strops ?

Have fun !

Best regards

Russ

Kanayama certainly doesn't recommend that treatment. Of course, it's his strop, he can do what he wants, but the "official" stance is oil is not normally recommended.

Of course, in this case who knows what will end up happening?

[thebigspendur]

This type of leather is radically different than any other type because of the process used to tan and finish it. It's no different with shoes made from the stuff. The advice is do nothing to it. Usually it wears very well and with shoes some light polish on rare occasions and a moist cloth with water to get light dirt. I know the recommendation with the strops is just leave it alone. I know mine is a few years old and it's fine the way it is even in my super dry climate.