Advice for restoring H. Boker Red Injun

Hey all,

I finally found a candidate for my first true restoration attempt trolling through a local antique shop.I thought it might be too far gone, covered in stain, who knows maybe it is but with just a little bit of 3M Metal Restorer & Polish she seemed to shine up much better than I had anticipated.

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While I know many disagree with bread knifing there was a considerable amount of uneven hone ware on the heel, so its been done. Now that I have a flattened, dull, and hand polished blade how should I move forward. Does this polish appear to be good enough or would I be able to remove the pitting where the heavy stains were with a polishing wheel on a Dremel tool?

The monkey tail has been filed down by some previous miscreant, I was thinking that if I took precautions against heat with some form of heatsink I could maybe solder something on. Or perhaps bolt on? any thoughts or should I just leave it alone.

Honing: I have four stones now, a 6x2" dmt 325, Norton 4k/8k, Naniwa 12k, and an American Three Line Barbers hone.
I want to start setting the bevel, as suggested in the wiki I am using electrical tape on the spine for this part of the process. But is the dmt 325 either too small or too course a grit for the initial removal of material.

Sorry for the ramble! I am excited to bring this razor back to life it already looks worlds better than it did. Thanks in advance for any help I truly appreciate it :D

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Originally Posted by SailorJ

Hey all,

I finally found a candidate for my first true restoration attempt trolling through a local antique shop.I thought it might be too far gone, covered in stain, who knows maybe it is but with just a little bit of 3M Metal Restorer & Polish she seemed to shine up much better than I had anticipated.

While I know many disagree with bread knifing there was a considerable amount of uneven hone ware on the heel, so its been done. Now that I have a flattened, dull, and hand polished blade how should I move forward. Does this polish appear to be good enough or would I be able to remove the pitting where the heavy stains were with a polishing wheel on a Dremel tool?

The monkey tail has been filed down by some previous miscreant, I was thinking that if I took precautions against heat with some form of heatsink I could maybe solder something on. Or perhaps bolt on? any thoughts or should I just leave it alone.

Honing: I have four stones now, a 6x2" dmt 325, Norton 4k/8k, Naniwa 12k, and an American Three Line Barbers hone.
I want to start setting the bevel, as suggested in the wiki I am using electrical tape on the spine for this part of the process. But is the dmt 325 either too small or too course a grit for the initial removal of material.

Sorry for the ramble! I am excited to bring this razor back to life it already looks worlds better than it did. Thanks in advance for any help I truly appreciate it :D

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SailorJ,
Your polishing looks nice, every razor doesn’t have to have a near mirror finish! I’d leave it where it is!!

The tail will always be that way, don’t try to solder/braze etc, just live with it! (These are the kind of things to consider before purchase).

My concerns are these:

How did you breadknife the blade?? Did you have it at a 90 deg vertical angle, or did you have it at a 45 deg or less angle?

One method makes honing a hell of a lot easier than the other!

Also from what I can see you 'might' have a ‘hook’ from the breadknifing that needs removed. (It’s by the stabilizer)!

My last concern is how many razors have you honed from this extreme kind of restore? Just wondering! :shrug:

I also highly recommend that you add there you are located in this world as there may be some more experienced help near by! You can't beat hands on learning!!

Keep up the efforts! It pays off in the end! :tu

I can't wait to see/hear how your project works out!

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Originally Posted by cudarunner

Also from what I can see you 'might' have a ‘hook’ from the breadknifing that needs removed. (It’s by the stabilizer)!

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Of course I took the scenic route, breadkniffing was done at a 90. And in truth this will be the first razor I have done quite this much honing on, though I have reset bevels a couple few times. I am unfamiliar with 'hooks' what are they and do you have any suggestions as to how they should be removed?

Thank you!

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Originally Posted by SailorJ

Of course I took the scenic route, breadkniffing was done at a 90. And in truth this will be the first razor I have done quite this much honing on, though I have reset bevels a couple few times. I am unfamiliar with 'hooks' what are they and do you have any suggestions as to how they should be removed?

Thank you!

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Here's a classic example of a 'hook' they happen when your removing excessive amounts of steel while doing the radical technique called 'breadknifing':

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Can you see it at the far right? If this had kept progressing, the 'point' that you can see will turn 'curved' that's why it's called a 'hook'.

The DMT 325 will do the work that you will need to do. I highly recommend that you start at a 45 deg angle and then lower it. If you would have done the initial work while breadknifing at the 45 deg angle, you would have saved yourself time, effort and irreplaceable steel from the razor!:banghead:

You have your hands full!!

I'm a real Mastodon with this computer crap! However I hope this shows what I 'think' is the start of a 'hook'. It's cropped so I don't know how well it will come out but I hope it gives you something to look for so that you can finish bringing the razor back to life! It really feels good when you can!

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'IF' it is there you can use the DMT 325 to carefully reduce it down. Keep an eye on the area as you 're-breadknife' the blade at a 45 deg angle, then lower it to about a 22-23 deg, then finish with or without however many layers of tape you wish!

Remember that getting those coarse scratches out will be a job in it's own! It's not impossible, it's just going to take a lot of time to do it right! The Norton 4K will get them out, but a 1K would be much more efficient.

Let us know how it goes! :shrug:

Nothing wrong with bread knifing when needed, you will need to correct the heel, that corner will get sharp. Now is the time to correct it before you hone. There are good threads and some videos I think.

Some OOOO or OOO steel wool and polish will take out some of the stains, buffing will get them all out but will require more tools. Get a piece of 4mm dense craft foam 8X11 craft foam. Work on the pad as you polish. The edge will bury it self in the foam allowing you to polish up to the edge without any danger of cutting yourself and protect the blade from breaking from excess pressure.

That tail is a problem but not much can be done about it. If you can hold the razor to shave it will only be an aesthetic problem. Other than that the razor appears to be in good condition with very little hone wear, some polish on a paper towel will shine up the scales, they look like horn.

You will need at least a 1K to put a bevel on a bread knife edge and a lot of time. I tape the bevel with 2 layers of tap to protect the bevel. Start holding the razor at a 45 degree angle and take off the corner of the 90 degree edge. Once you get the bevels to meet, then put the razor on the stone with more pressure on the edge and the spine lightly on the stone. Remove the 45 degree corner until you have established a full bevel.

Now re-tape and hone normally and set a bevel. This is a lot of work on a 1K, Norton 1K is the best for this as they are a bit harder. It is much easier on a full set of hones going down to a 400, 600 and 1K or the 325, 600 and 1200 DMT. This is not something I would recommend to a new honer learning to hone. This is repair work and it can be work to do it without causing more damage.

If the bread knifing was lightly done you should be able to get er done on a 1K, it will depend how wide the 90 degree edge is.

How wide is the edge?

Progress and follies thus far.
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I have been successfully honing my personal rotation for the last year now to the extent of professionally honed razors I have used. Though I have yet to try setting a bevel all the way from a bread knifed edge and here especially it is proving to be a good deal different.

Contrary to creating a hook the entire blade has actually now taken on a very slight smile. I've decided that's not a terrible thing since I would not mind trying out a smiling blade. I had difficulty getting the middle of the edge to sharpen up once graduating from the dmt 325 to the 4k w/ slurry. Changing my honing to very subtly moving pressure from heel to tow has gotten it farther, but so far it still does not cut anything.

The edge seems much closer, but perhaps it is time to go back to the 325 until the bevel is entirely set. ( after this I intend to get a chossera 1k asap). I'm a bit uncomfortable working with the 325 as it is only 2" wide.

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

How wide is the edge?

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I'm not sure, I did not measure it from the beginning. The metal seems to be coming to a reasonable point, the heel and tow bot had the bevel set, leaving out the middle though.

So close yet so far

The hook is the point on the corner of the heel, that should be rounded. Do a Google search of Red Injuns and look at the heels. Round that off with the DMT.

The DMT 3 Credit Card plate set is great for this kind of repair. I think they are about 20-30 bucks. You can also set a bevel from bread knife fairly quickly with the cards, though a full size stone is much better and easier..

If you are going to go from 325 to 4 K it is a jump. Bring the bevels togeather with the 325 then polish with the 4K, plan on spending some time on the 4K.

I advise the Credit Card plates they are also great Slurry and refresh lapping a stone.

Circles on the 325 until the bevels meet, then polish on the 4K

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

The hook is the point on the corner of the heel, that should be rounded. Do a Google search of Red Injuns and look at the heels. Round that off with the DMT.

If you are going to go from 325 to 4 K it is a jump. Bring the bevels togeather with the 325 then polish with the 4K, plan on spending some time on the 4K. :tu

Circles on the 325 until the bevels meet, then polish on the 4K :bow :bow

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As I said, it's a lot of work. The 1k would really be nice! However the 4K will get the job done! Personally I'd be sure to us a slurry on the 4K it will cut a lot faster!

I should have mentioned that I'd also recommend doing some nice x-strokes after the circles just as a precaution!

I remember watching Lynn's videos on bevel setting. He mentions pressure, and using circles + x strokes to set an even bevel. It seems to be working for the heel and tow but the middle does not see the same results and excessive pressure may well be the reason for the smile.

Are there different procedures for setting the bevel on a smiling blade?

Alright!

So, as it would seem my mistake came from not spending enough time on the dmt establishing the bevel. I noticed the the ends grabbed on the tnt but not the middle. After re-watching Glen's smiling blade bevel set. After a few 45 degree strokes with my finger lightly pressuring down on the middle the bevel became even and set.

then off to the 4k w/ slurry, w/o, then pyramid from 4k to 8k, then 8k to 12k, pasted strop. Now it pops hairs like no bodies business! It shaves as well as my Droescher but perhaps now quite as good as my Revisor 6/8.

Thank you for the advice gentlemen! I am happy to present my first "restore"

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

Every Red Injun Boker I have seen with "R P" is a round point. Every set of scales I have seen with those bolsters have them at the pivot end as well.
Unless I am mistaken, the blade and the scales have been shortened as there is no round point, no top bolsters. I am fairly certain that the scales are not original to the blade.

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Yep! I believe I am there, though it still does not quite shave like my brand new revisor. I think I will need a bit more time honing on smiling blades before I improve it. however entire blade shaves nicely.

The only difference that I see, is this. When I finish off my revisor I can take it to the beard stubble on my cheek and comfortable dry shave. This is not the case yet for this blade.

However I find it very likely that this blade was shortened based on grind marks left on the tip.

Hopefully if it was done it was filed down by hand and not overheated as to destroy the temper.