another (similar) way to drill pins and save original washers

Here is another method that I use to drill out pins and save the original washers on a razor.
first of all, pick a razor. That's easy. For this example I chose a Wade & Butcher that has decent scales that can be used in a later thread.
As has been pointed out before you don't want to try drilling out a pin that is domed. The Drill bit will skate across the pin more readily than biting in and it's likely that if it does bite in it will be off center and may ruin the washers you intend to save. To facilitate the drill starting where you want it to it is first helpful to file the head flat as seen in the picture.

After filing the flat you want to ensure the drill bit will center properly. There are different ways of doing this but all involve creating a shallow recess or divot in the center of the pin. For this method I chose to start a pilot with an inexpensive center drill bit. The oversized shank of these bits greatly aids the stability while starting a pilot hole. I Chose to use a center drill bit a little smaller than the 1/16" bit I will later use to finish drilling the pin.

Now that the center of the pin is drilled I switch to the 1/16" drill bit I will use to finish drilling the pins. In the photo you can see how once the pin is drilled down far enough the washers will spiral up the drill bit. It is important to turn off the motor before attempting to remove the washers.
These little guys are, well.... little. You want to make sure you have a clean spot set aside so you can save them without losing them in clutter. In the photo you can see that I simply used a piece of tape to hold all washers I removed. Also note that I left the remaining washers on the pins and simply removed the remaining portion of pin once enough of the center was drilled out. You DO NOT have or want to drill through the entire pin. You increase the likelihood of damaging the scales or washers if you try to drill through the whole pin.
At this stage I have the razor all apart and ready for further restorative action on the scales and blade. Those will be dealt with in later Threads. If you do not plan to finish the restore in one go then it is wise to have a space set aside before hand for safe storage of the loose blade and small parts. I like to keep all parts from a razor stored together.

Thanks for posting this method! never got round to it.
I have a couple older Dremel drill presses with the base that rises and the tool stays stationary and the above methods work very well for me also.
Center drills at HF or online in a better quality.Attachment 166307
~Richard

Nice work! These things which have been coming up are so useful to do accurate restos. Thanks to all of you which contribute!
Relieves me to see someone else coming up to the bit. Works for some! Lord knows we must save collars, scales, and all! ;)

Attachment 166308

In that vein, here are some other things which work well for me!
Cheap tools for razor restorations
~Richard

I have been using a snapping center punch. I will have to try the center drill someday now that you have reminded me to get one. The thing with my punch method is I can hit it again and move the divot if I don't get it perfect the first time. I always file like you do. And I stop before I hit the washer if they are real relics. Then I use a pin vice to remove the rest of the pin top. Your method may save me some time.

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Originally Posted by 10Pups

I have been using a snapping center punch. I will have to try the center drill someday now that you have reminded me to get one. The thing with my punch method is I can hit it again and move the divot if I don't get it perfect the first time. I always file like you do. And I stop before I hit the washer if they are real relics. Then I use a pin vice to remove the rest of the pin top. Your method may save me some time.

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Only problem I have had with the snapping center punches is they can break the old celluloid or bone and ivory scales at the pin...happened to me a couple times. Fine for horn and other slightly flexible materials.
~Richard

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Originally Posted by 10Pups

I have been using a snapping center punch. I will have to try the center drill someday now that you have reminded me to get one. The thing with my punch method is I can hit it again and move the divot if I don't get it perfect the first time. I always file like you do. And I stop before I hit the washer if they are real relics. Then I use a pin vice to remove the rest of the pin top. Your method may save me some time.

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I used a snap center punch for a while. They work good, but they must be unscrewed and 'tuned' to give a lighter 'tap' by grinding off of the main spring. They still want to go where you don't want them to! After I discovered the split-tip cobalt jobber-length bits, I throw rocks at all of my previous endeavors. I simply aim and drill them out! JMO

[QUOTE=10Pups;1338625] I always file like you do. And I stop before I hit the washer if they are real relics. QUOTE]

:o you saw where I filed a wee bit too much did you? hehe, if you look at the pic of the washers on the piece of tape you can see its just a grazing, that first pic looked BAD! but a good reminder, if these were daisy collars or something special id be gritting my teath at myself!

Okay that's it I'm getting a center drill. Have you guys ever gone up in dia. to get to the washer? I mean forget that long skinny drill bit. I never have problems with the punch doing anything other than missing perfect center. I use it against the same anvil I pin on and so the head is pretty solid. Those light scratches come out silverloaf it's just more work to do. I would rather have a sore thumb than more work to do :<0)

Yeah, but guys, the center of the pin must be drilled out. Keep that in mind. Don't trash the collars to get a starting point!
Drill thru the middle!

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Originally Posted by 10Pups

Okay that's it I'm getting a center drill. Have you guys ever gone up in dia. to get to the washer? I mean forget that long skinny drill bit. I never have problems with the punch doing anything other than missing perfect center. I use it against the same anvil I pin on and so the head is pretty solid. Those light scratches come out silverloaf it's just more work to do. I would rather have a sore thumb than more work to do :<0)

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I have used a bit larger than 1/16 to nab the collars, 5/64. I have found it better to wobble with the 1/16.

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Originally Posted by 10Pups

Okay that's it I'm getting a center drill. Have you guys ever gone up in dia. to get to the washer? I mean forget that long skinny drill bit. I never have problems with the punch doing anything other than missing perfect center. I use it against the same anvil I pin on and so the head is pretty solid. Those light scratches come out silverloaf it's just more work to do. I would rather have a sore thumb than more work to do :<0)

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I started with the smaller center bit and then chucked a slightly larger one in to weaken the pin a bit since this had 2 collars per side. I figured id see if I could pop the first and maybe second without drilling too much with the 1/16" bit. didn't really prove beneficial in this case, other times I have drilled out minimally like that and popped the collars, then snip the little bit of pin and out she goes. hitting it up with a 3/64" bit on a 1/16" pin would accomplish the same thing, weakens the pin enough to pop the collars without risk of buggering them up.

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

I have used a bit larger than 1/16 to nab the collars, 5/64. I have found it better to wobble with the 1/16.

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see my last post, am I thinking close to what you are saying?

The collars must just fall off or stick to the bit. Prying is a destructive method. Once I get a little pin showing the file gets the burrs off so the rest just slides apart. I blew out the backside of a scale once and learned that lesson. No prying.

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Originally Posted by silverloaf

see my last post, am I thinking close to what you are saying?

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Well, I meant as the 1/16 hole is drilled thru the middle, there is a ring of pin still peened holding the collar on. A slightly larger bit will sometimes cut this out and free the collar. A light touch is needed and sometimes wrecks collars. I prefer to go a bit deep with the 1/16 and wobble it around in order to chew it off, so to speak.

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

Well, I meant as the 1/16 hole is drilled thru the middle, there is a ring of pin still peened holding the collar on. A slightly larger bit will sometimes cut this out and free the collar. A light touch is needed and sometimes wrecks collars. I prefer to go a bit deep with the 1/16 and wobble it around in order to chew it off, so to speak.

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gotcha! I didn't understand what you were saying the first time, now I sees it all clear!

I have found a link to better describe what I mean by split-tip bits, if some don't know.
The Difference Between Split-Point Drill Bits & Standard | eHow

I need no center punch or starting divot with these as coming up to the bit. They go right where you point them.
I also prefer the shorter, or jobber length bits. Stiffer does better! :D

Also, I have found that a drop of oil on the bit works wonders as well as drilling at low speed, about 250 rpm.' Let the bit do the work' works for me.

I am surprised the pin doesn't spin under the dill. Or, do they usually have a bend in them?

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Originally Posted by Neckbone

I am surprised the pin doesn't spin under the dill. Or, do they usually have a bend in them?

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At times they do! Usually squeezing the blade/scales tightly and drilling lightly will cure it!

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Originally Posted by Neckbone

I am surprised the pin doesn't spin under the dill. Or, do they usually have a bend in them?

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When they are peened, the top of the pin flares a little in the scale hole. This is usually enough to stop the pin from spinning.

If you find a bent pin, then it usually means that the pin was trimmed too long before peening - the excess length before the scales tighten on the blade is taken up by the pin buckling.

The false pins that Dovo and the like use (ie most modern makers, if not all) which are really a small tack with a domed collar on one side only are quite often bent-up inside like this.

Regards,
Neil