Otto Deutsch 6/8ths I need help. Order of operation vs. Leave it alone

It was on my bucket list . Got Ebayed but didnt see this one coming.
1) how do I proceed see images below input valued.

First Ebay pics.
2nd my before pics
3rd what I found at this point.

Quarantined, Coat of Tuffglide ,stored open , out of UV light.
Question, Use as is? If no then cut off end before buffing? Seems that the stress of buffing machine would further stress crack.
Reshape toe end first, resand for any remaining pits. Buff to mirror. Save money for new scales? Is this the proper way to proceed to save , I would like to keep this one. Input please.
Shaved with it as is. preformed like it is made out to be. Outstanding. Now how to not wreck what cant be replaced?

Disclaimer : I actually have almost zero knowledge and absolutely no idea of what I'm talking about.

If it were mine, I would just continue shaving with it and store it open on it's own. It would probably outlive me.

Barber notch it with a small dremel type grinder bit used in a drill on slooowww with a light touch and regular cooling
With grind rotation starting from the spine and grinding into the crack
Even a dose of CA glue to help hold it and stop vibration might help

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Originally Posted by Substance

Barber notch it with a small dremel type grinder bit used in a drill on slooowww with a light touch and regular cooling
With grind rotation starting from the spine and grinding into the crack
Even a dose of CA glue to help hold it and stop vibration might help

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Now that's an idea, see I told you I didn't know anything

Is the other thing that you are concerned that the pitting was caused by cell rot? I do like the idea of how to reshape the toe.

To me the beauty of those razors are all in the scales,If a case of cell rot? it has a terminal cancer,your call.
If it hones and shaves well,leave it as is, (the crack) JMO

One of the best looking, cell-rot prone razors ever. It would cost a lot to do new scales, inlay-transfers, shortening the blade past the crack. They are going by the wayside every day, IMO. Sad! Soak the scales in 3M wet type silicone. It helps.

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Originally Posted by RezDog

Is the other thing that you are concerned that the pitting was caused by cell rot? I do like the idea of how to reshape the toe.

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I am concerned about cell rot. Wasn't sold that this is what I have yet. But know that the scales are prone to it. Right now when I hold it up to the light, shine flashlight through scales ,I see uniformity throughout the scales. Smell test Zero. Well tuffglide. I sanded deeper than all the rust , staining, early cell rot. I do like the barbers notch Idea. thinking about epoxy along crack on both sides of blade before I would try said procedure.
Down the road I will want to get it done in acrylic. I have had some good clean-ups of other blades, I want to continue to get better . If the community can detail the procedure, I am game to try. I want to also confirm no cell rot before continuing. I was thinking a 2 week quarantine and see what develops blade wise. Your thoughts please.

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

One of the best looking, cell-rot prone razors ever. It would cost a lot to do new scales, inlay-transfers, shortening the blade past the crack. They are going by the wayside every day, IMO. Sad! Soak the scales in 3M wet type silicone. It helps.

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You know you are dead on again. If and big if no cell rot I would pay for the inlay-transfers. I will go to library for more info on wet silicone. What is its purpose? Length of protection? I cant undo the crack. The Barbers notch idea appeals to me over shortening the blade. Go from least invasive to most. Heres the real problem. I have been in love with this razor since I first saw one. So right now I am a deer in the headlights. I have stalked it for so long , now all I want to do is save it, restore it.
Definitely appreciate input thank-you .

I have written about the 3M before. In my automotive work, I have used it for years on plastic and rubber parts. It goes in and rejuvenates, brings back flexibility and color. Some will say it does no good on celluloid, but I am a believer. I have many rot-prone scales in my collection. I treat them once a year. I clean the scales with diluted simple green and a toothbrush, after drying well, I slather the scales inside and out. Let it sit on a hard surface, turn over a few times. Repeat next day. Let sit another day.There should be little excess to wipe off after. Makes the colors pop again. Seems to keep the rot at bay, for me, anyway! ;)

Attachment 176182

As to the crack, I would suggest taking the blade back past the crack in original configuration.
A razor like this with a barber's notch would not look right, JMO.

Sorry off topic.
But I love this photo, especially the bench in the back ground, It confirms for me that I'm not the only one with bits & pieces everywehere on the bench while im working LOL.
I am in awe of some workshop spaces I have seen here but this is reality for me. especially considering I used about only 2' of bench space for several months until I re-organised all my crap in the shed to reclaim the other 3' odd

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

I have written about the 3M before. In my automotive work, I have used it for years on plastic and rubber parts. It goes in and rejuvenates, brings back flexibility and color. Some will say it does no good on celluloid, but I am a believer. I have many rot-prone scales in my collection. I treat them once a year. I clean the scales with diluted simple green and a toothbrush, after drying well, I slather the scales inside and out. Let it sit on a hard surface, turn over a few times. Repeat next day. Let sit another day.There should be little excess to wipe off after. Makes the colors pop again. Seems to keep the rot at bay, for me, anyway! ;)

Attachment 176182

As to the crack, I would suggest taking the blade back past the crack in original configuration.
A razor like this with a barber's notch would not look right, JMO.

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great tip tom!
as for the barbers notch idea- I say try a minimal notch and see if its to your liking and you can always grind to originl configuration if its not. there is a problem with notching hollow grounds though and theres a reason why you don't have full hollows with notches. that little bit of toe under the notch will be too "flexy" and likely to be harder to keep honed properly (yes ive seen it). notching also creates more opportunity to catch on something and this will be a weak point that if stressed enough could crack your blade down the length (yes ive seen it). on full hollows the blade is often ground so thin in cross section that when notching it the notch will be very sharp itself and can cause injury if not properly handled (yes ive seen it). but again, you may like the aesthetic and if you are a careful user then it may work for you :gl:

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Originally Posted by silverloaf

great tip tom!
as for the barbers notch idea- I say try a minimal notch and see if its to your liking and you can always grind to originl configuration if its not. there is a problem with notching hollow grounds though and theres a reason why you don't have full hollows with notches. that little bit of toe under the notch will be too "flexy" and likely to be harder to keep honed properly (yes ive seen it). notching also creates more opportunity to catch on something and this will be a weak point that if stressed enough could crack your blade down the length (yes ive seen it). on full hollows the blade is often ground so thin in cross section that when notching it the notch will be very sharp itself and can cause injury if not properly handled (yes ive seen it). but again, you may like the aesthetic and if you are a careful user then it may work for you :gl:

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Very good point never thought of that. I was in contact with original owner, a true gentleman, He suggested keeping this as true to original as possible. I would like to restore it for the next generation of wet shavers. Preservation is my prime concern. Day 2 post sanding, blade open and all is well.

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Originally Posted by Substance

Sorry off topic.
But I love this photo, especially the bench in the back ground, It confirms for me that I'm not the only one with bits & pieces everywehere on the bench while im working LOL.
I am in awe of some workshop spaces I have seen here but this is reality for me. especially considering I used about only 2' of bench space for several months until I re-organised all my crap in the shed to reclaim the other 3' odd

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Ha ! You should see my 5' work bench clutter. Bandsaw, 2 grinders, small vise, Dremel stand & a box in the corner just to limit space. :roflmao


I would say the wedge is gassing off as well with the toe that rusty. I would hunt down some green acylic & rebuild the scales & shorten the tip to original. I agree a barber's notch would look wrong.

Try moving 4K lbs of stuff yourself and cannot find what you need to get all back in working condition:(
Attachment 176288

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Try moving 4K lbs of stuff yourself and cannot find what you need to get all back in working condition:(

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Now that is what I call a microscope, not to mention the other gear ........ one helluva microscope though !

On the upside it's a short walk to each machine.

And normally having spare nuts and bolts in the work shop would be a good thing
Until you remember where they were meant to be

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Now that is what I call a microscope, not to mention the other gear ........ one helluva microscope though !

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Great scope,just put on local Craigslist.that base wgts 30 lbs

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

I have written about the 3M before. In my automotive work, I have used it for years on plastic and rubber parts. It goes in and rejuvenates, brings back flexibility and color. Some will say it does no good on celluloid, but I am a believer. I have many rot-prone scales in my collection. I treat them once a year. I clean the scales with diluted simple green and a toothbrush, after drying well, I slather the scales inside and out. Let it sit on a hard surface, turn over a few times. Repeat next day. Let sit another day.There should be little excess to wipe off after. Makes the colors pop again. Seems to keep the rot at bay, for me, anyway! ;)


As to the crack, I would suggest taking the blade back past the crack in original configuration.
A razor like this with a barber's notch would not look right, JMO.

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Are you saying you used the silicone on scales already showing signs of rot and it stopped it? or you used it on scales that have not yet rotted? Because there is NO doubt in my mind that poor Otto is in its rotting stage.
I would seriously consider sending the blade to a pro for shortening. That crack is in a rough location, and the wrong move could cause it to spread. and no barbers notch. =)

I'd suggest RTV on the blade for damping vibrations rather than epoxy unless you dislike the smell of vinegar. ;)

Fine looking razor, hope you can save it.

I just use electricians tape instead of RTV or silicone when reshaping a razor, less mess. +1 on the "Nix the Barbers Notch Notion" it would just not fit that razor. As far as cell rot, I hate to be the bearer of bade tidings but those scales must go.

Attachment 176356
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Sometimes there is no alternative to grinding it shorter. I ground this one back to two inches and refit the scales to the blade. Still a great shaver.............:rock:

Crack goes all the way through, trying to stabilise with bilateral epoxy needs to cure. Leaning towards NO notch staying true to originalAttachment 176495Attachment 176496Attachment 176497Attachment 176498Attachment 176499
Today the steel is clean, and I am having a hard time waiting and watching. Prepping for the inevivitable. thinking of the most stable methodology to increase sucsuess rate. I dont cut or grind a blade everyday...well never up till now

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Originally Posted by guitstik

I just use electricians tape instead of RTV or silicone when reshaping a razor, less mess. +1 on the "Nix the Barbers Notch Notion" it would just not fit that razor. As far as cell rot, I hate to be the bearer of bade tidings but those scales must go.

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Duly noted on the scales. It above my skill set today Going to library and Videos. A few test runs on no name inlay transfers before I get brave.

Sadley, epoxy will do nothing to stabilize the crack,nor will CA or any glue,good luck tho.

Do you have a blade you can do a practice cut on?
Maybe that would help ease your nerves a bit and offer you some suggestions on what to do and what not to do.

If you go slow and keep it cool it "shouldn't" be that hard to do...
:gl:

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Originally Posted by Chevhead

Do you have a blade you can do a practice cut on?
Maybe that would help ease your nerves a bit and offer you some suggestions on what to do and what not to do.

If you go slow and keep it cool it "shouldn't" be that hard to do...
:gl:

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Did that on an grinder, But it was a half-wedge. Full- hollow and grinder alot scarier. Dremmel cut off wheel going through thinner metal made more sense. Placing blade in a wood block for backside stabilization. Only thoughts I have open to ideas . Heard about a dremmel grinder wheel. still considering all options

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Sadley, epoxy will do nothing to stabilize the crack,nor will CA or any glue,good luck tho.

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Any input for success?? with a shop that looks anorexic compared to your. And there is the lack of familiarity with any procedure. I did add electrical tape along the cut line 3 layers thick as was suggested.

IF you cut with a cut off wheel, watch for heat on the wheel from also cutting the wood. I had one break in half at 10,000 rpm and the part came to rest stuck in my chin.

I haven't tried it but my thought would be if you were working close to the surface of waters you can pick up the cooling from it. I'm having trouble getting it from my head to the keyboard.

good point. standing off to the side was a thought. Full hollow with a curved crack was wobbling too much for comfort on hone stone. toe down, blade vertical. tried back and forth, which was slightly better than circles. It felt like a flag atop a flagpole it wobbled so bad. . Crazy plan is to freeze the wood over night, and hold an ice cube in the hollow just off the cut mark. and be decisive yet careful. wheel heats stop. cool and replace cube in hollow. Its the only idea I got. So I aint racing into this. kinda circling and stalking a plan of attack. Good point though. As a good Mentor would. Thank-you

perhaps a wet sponge partially frozen as your backer. That is probably as low tech of a heat sink as you will find. If the sponge was fairly dense it may give some support. A face shield is often a really great option as well.

I don't use a backer because if you forget and apply to much pressure, snap, no more worries because it is useless now. I use electrical tape as a guide for my cut as well as to keep any vibration down that may cause problems while cutting, I also do the cutting freehand. Cut a little dip it in room temp water, cold water has a better chance of warping the razor. A little at a time and slowly, you should do fine.

Now that the crack is removed. I need to shape and smooth toe at the spine. Dremmel on slow?? Sand paper 220grit? that might take awhile. Lay it flat on sanding block and work one side at a time and feather the middle??


Used all your advise by the way it was the epoxy and three layers of electrical tape. but that caused the rest of the blade to not lay flat. squared blade end on sanding block end. scored both sides on blade with deremmel using the tape line to stay square. holding dremmel level based on tape line. Once scored I worked from edge up to spine. Flipping blade over to ensure straight cut. once cut through at edge followed the line north towards spine. Ice water for blade with ice cube placed in hollow.
Results as follows .Thanks to all members ideas input and warnings helped to calm my nerves and just give it my best. This one is for the help thus far
Thank-you.


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Originally Posted by guitstik

I don't use a backer because if you forget and apply to much pressure, snap, no more worries because it is useless now. I use electrical tape as a guide for my cut as well as to keep any vibration down that may cause problems while cutting, I also do the cutting freehand. Cut a little dip it in room temp water, cold water has a better chance of warping the razor. A little at a time and slowly, you should do fine.

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See pics its a done deal now. Your points are good. I did take it slow. the shrapnel warning and running crack warning had me circling the project half the morning thinking and over thinking . How does cold water warp a razor?? and in which direction? and is it due to the shock of hot metal to cold water? Where would I check to see if I did this? Down the shaft?? Spine looking down toward blade? Have you ever done this? Now I am going back to stare at a razor that still has 10 days in quarantine till I go back to work on it.

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Originally Posted by ultrasoundguy2003

See pics its a done deal now. Your points are good. I did take it slow. the shrapnel warning and running crack warning had me circling the project half the morning thinking and over thinking . How does cold water warp a razor?? and in which direction? and is it due to the shock of hot metal to cold water? Where would I check to see if I did this? Down the shaft?? Spine looking down toward blade? Have you ever done this? Now I am going back to stare at a razor that still has 10 days in quarantine till I go back to work on it.

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Whenever I put a razor in a situation where heat is a concern I try to keep it at bay, I also check it on a known flat surface for warpage. The sudden change from hot to cold, especially on a thin piece of metal, is bound to cause a certain amount of warping so I try to keep the heat buildup to a minimum as well as the change in temperature thus the luke warm water. I place the razors that I work with on a thick piece of glass that I know to be true as I work on it either buffing or grinding. If, during the work, I feel that it has deviated from true straight I then determine what it will take to bring it back in line. There are several options at that point but not something that I would care to try and elaborate on as it would be very complicated in this format. If you are happy with the results than by all means carry on. It looks good so far.

Good job
Now back on track nearly looks like nice shaver for sure and neone will ever notice
Maybe

Out of the ICUAttachment 179270Attachment 179271Attachment 179272Attachment 179273Attachment 179274Attachment 179275Attachment 179276Thank-you to all members for their input and ideas. Pictures tell the rest