Need some advice on how not to buff away part of a toe

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Originally Posted by TrilliumLT

http://straightrazorpalace.com/custo...nded-boker.htm
This was my first blade, and this is what happen when i tried to clean it up. Wow this was a really piece of junk. Go easy on trying to loose those pits.

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When I click on that link, I get "Page not found." Perhaps if you fill out the dots in the address, the page will come up?

Joe

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

Once a razor begins to pit, the steel is weakened. If the grind is hollow and if the cause was due to Cell rot, the steel may be compromised and not hold an edge. Add to that an overheated thin blade that may have caused the blade to loose temper the edge may crumble.

It is good that you are quenching in ice water, but to have removed so much of the toe, it could have gotten hot.

If you hone it and you see micro chipping on the edge, the steel or the temper is compromised and will be un-shaveable. These are considerations you want to know about, before you invest many hours in a restoration. It does not take long to overheat a thin blade especially if you are using 6 inch wheels on a 1700 rpm buffer.

Dremels can get away from you quickly and easily. Be very careful with them. Any one that has used them for any period of time has a horror story.

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Thanks much for that information. I'll hone and check the edge under a microscope to see if there is micro chipping.

I've heard the term "cell rot" fairly often but don't yet have a clear idea what that is. Is it rot in celluloid scales that also causes the steel in a blade to deteriorate? If that's what it is, can you see the rot in the celluloid?

Joe

Did you ever see any pretty rainbow colors on the blade as you were buffing? If yes, the temper is shot in those areas

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Originally Posted by carrolljc

When I click on that link, I get "Page not found." Perhaps if you fill out the dots in the address, the page will come up?

Joe

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Fixed it. Did it from my phone. I guess it does not copy and paste to well.

Thanks for the heads up Joe

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Originally Posted by bluesman7

Did you ever see any pretty rainbow colors on the blade as you were buffing? If yes, the temper is shot in those areas

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Ah, good. Glad to get that tip. I've been pretty careful to keep blades from getting too hot, but there is one blade that has a discolored spot right on the toe. That happens to be a blade I cleaned a while back, the last one I cleaned before I started buffing. It required only light cleaning, and I tried using a Dremel abrasive brush on it. I've now definitively sworn off taking a Dremel to a blade. I suspected that the discolored spot was a spot of dis-tempering. For that one blade, I'll have to re-shape the toe.

Joe

Cell Rot, is where the chemicals in the Celluloid break down and cause an acidic vapor off gasses. The gas eats the steel by oxidation usually beginning at the edge, left unabated it can completely consume the steel. In some cases, while the visible damage is not extensive, it can weaken the thin steel near the edge.

There are at least two types of off gassing based on the chemical composition of the Celluloid and each may have different characteristics, but all will eat metal.

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

Cell Rot, is where the chemicals in the Celluloid break down and cause an acidic vapor off gasses. The gas eats the steel by oxidation usually beginning at the edge, left unabated it can completely consume the steel. In some cases, while the visible damage is not extensive, it can weaken the thin steel near the edge.

There are at least two types of off gassing based on the chemical composition of the Celluloid and each may have different characteristics, but all will eat metal.

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Thanks for that. That's clearly explained, and the pictures illustrate it vividly. I haven't seen that yet in one of my own razors, thank goodness.

Joe

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Originally Posted by TrilliumLT

Fixed it. Did it from my phone.

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All the way through!

I figured I'd have to make some mistakes and learn the hard way. My way has so far been mainly damaged toes, I think.

I already owned some diamond files but ordered a set of the EZ-Lap diamond files. They are wider and have a broader range of grits than the set I already owned. I hadn't heard of them before Euclid440 mentioned them, so thanks to him for that.

Joe

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Originally Posted by carrolljc

All the way through!

I figured I'd have to make some mistakes and learn the hard way. My way has so far been mainly damaged toes, I think.

I already owned some diamond files but ordered a set of the EZ-Lap diamond files. They are wider and have a broader range of grits than the set I already owned. I hadn't heard of them before Euclid440 mentioned them, so thanks to him for that.

Joe

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Let me add some constructive criticism. Your buffing is removing all the sharp, crisp edges that originally existed on that blade. You already figured out what happened to the toe. If you like that rounded look in your razors, then by all means carry on.

The only way you'll keep from doing the aforementioned is to use fairly stiff wheels that match the concave on the blade, and be very careful as you buff.

The higher the grit, the faster the blade will heat.

I've bought, sold, and traded old pocket knives for years as well as razors. I run backwards like a trained rodeo horse when I see an old knife that is all shiny from a buffer. Same with a razor. The few razors I mess with any never get against any of my buffing wheels. I may buff a horn scale every now and then but never a blade. I've had too many things jerked out of my hands and shot across the room, or jerked into the frame of the buffer and wrecked. Don't want to even imagine having a razor get loose and get a finger or worse.

I used to hand forge and grind knives, that and bluing guns taught me a lot about buffers and buffing.

I'm 62 now and I was buffing guns for bluing/re-bluing when I was 17. Made knives as a hobby for 10 years in the 80's. I've worn out a lot of buffing wheels in my time and ruined more than one item of value. Watched a friend of mine do exactly opposite of what I told him to do when he was buffing his knife one afternoon on a big buffer. It was a long, messy 42 mile ride to the hospital to get his ear sewed back on. He was lucky. If that blade had hit him in the eye, I figure his ride that afternoon would have been in the medical examiner's van.

Moral of that story is, don't stand in line with your buffing wheel.

Keep after it and you'll get it sorted. Be careful and have fun.

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Originally Posted by Wullie

Let me add some constructive criticism. Your buffing is removing all the sharp, crisp edges that originally existed on that blade. You already figured out what happened to the toe. If you like that rounded look in your razors, then by all means carry on.

The only way you'll keep from doing the aforementioned is to use fairly stiff wheels that match the concave on the blade, and be very careful as you buff.

The higher the grit, the faster the blade will heat.

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Thanks for that advice. As I get a better feel for it, I've been coming to prefer the stiff wheels. Caswell has a treated unvented sewn cotton wheel that is very stiff. Their ordinary sewn cotton wheels can also have crisp effects. I had been using quite a few of the treated vented wheels, but they are softer and have less definite lines. I'll keep aiming at getting crisper lines.

Joe