Pining Issue

Hello!

I've got a question about drilling and pining that maybe someone can clear up. I've drills drilled and pinned with success and also with bending failure before so I'm trying to figure out what went wrong and right. Watched videos and tap lightly, have good drill press.
Anyway, let's say I've got the scales drilled and wedge drilled and then put them together, because the taper of the wedge that would force the pin to need to bend in the middle at an angle. Or I could put a shim under the scales with the wedge in and then drill to prevent the angle. But that's just a idea. How do you guys get around this?
Or do you just put the wedge in, lay the scales flat on the bottom scale and drill with the top scale having the hole drilled a slight angle...?
Thanks for the help,
M

Have never drilled at an angle.I do use a microbolt and nut to bring the pivot end together than peen the wedge,if properly peened have never had an issue.

Yea, you are overthinking this. Pins bend because of being hit too hard, the pin bend in the middle instead of mushrooming on the end.

Your holes, and pins, must be perpendicular with the blade, the hole is slightly angled, but so slight I don’t know how you would measure it.

Perhaps try annealing your pin stock to soften your stock. Go slow and hit the edge of the pin and move the razor so you are hitting straight down and the razor/pin moves so you are evenly peening around the pin end.

Your pin may have been too long, if it is just file off a bit more. Also taper you pin holes with a pin vise or a bit with a hex head attached, so the peen mushrooms filling the hole evenly, as well as forming a peen head.

JUst make the hole in the wedge with the entrance and exit bigger. Countersunk if you will.

I drill the hole In the wedge larger than the scales.

If I am reading this correct, you have already shaped your scales and now you are trying to drill them? When everything is pinned up the mushroom end on the pin is not truly perpendicular to the blade, but the pin axis is. It is important to realize that when tightening and shaping the end of the pin that is is the outer edges of the mushroomed end that holds everything tight. When you bend pins it is because you are hitting too hard as already pointed out and also very likely that your pin is too long. As it mushrooms over if it is not getting tight file a little off and try again. The pin will only shorten a small amount as the mushroom forms, so if you keep beating on it it bends instead of getting shorter. These are my thought on what I think you are saying and asking.

Thanks for all the replies. I have a buddy who restores too, but for twenty plus years. He came over today and helped figure it out. Re pinned three razors and had no problem lol he was asking "well what's the problem then?"
We figured out that it was a combination of my drill I was using before.. a Dremel drill press making the wholes terrible, I was cutting pins too long, made wedge taper too steep, and it helps to glue wedge to one side but is not necessary.
I wanted to get right on top of this problem because I'm getting ready to use some expensive scale material and don't want to waste by simple screw ups...
Thanks again for the help, I think I have it nailed down. Gonna practice more before expensive stuff..

I drill the scales and the wedge separately, never had issues with alignment and bent pins. When all is put together the pin goes straight through all the holes and it looks perpendicular to the blade, but my eyes may be deceiving me.

......................I am confused!

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Originally Posted by mainaman

I drill the scales and the wedge separately, never had issues with alignment and bent pins. When all is put together the pin goes straight through all the holes and it looks perpendicular to the blade, but my eyes may be deceiving me.

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I remembered one step that probably leads to my result, after I glue the wedge and the scales together I clean up with my pin vise and that must be making the holes flush so the pin goes through straight.

Make a wedge and pin a couple pairs of Popsicle sticks. Use a third stick as the blade.

They are very unforgiving, if you can pin them you will have it down, good enough to do real scales. Try pinning with and without annealing.

Couple bucks for a bag of 25 or so from Wally or Craft store, they come in handy for cleaning, clip one end flat & wrap with steel wool.

This question was already answered fairly well. Besides my own mistakes and poor tools.. the other question:
Basically, err maybe not so basic.. when the scales are drilled with holes 90 degrees, and then the wedge drilled separately, and then all put together.. the holes going through the scales are now no longer lined up along the same plain. When the pin is pushed through, it will be forced to turn with an angle relative to the taper angle of the wedge. Higher tolerance than exact allows for holes drilled in the scales that allow the pins to be at angles other than 90 degrees. As a couple guys suggested the wedge can be drilled a bit wider as well. Without these lenient tolerances the pin would surely be bent. But maybe pins are more forgiving and even still there would be no problem.
As Euclid440 suggested: I was over thinking it. Probably because others get by just fine without worrying about such minutiae... :)

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

Make a wedge and pin a couple pairs of Popsicle sticks. Use a third stick as the blade.

They are very unforgiving, if you can pin them you will have it down, good enough to do real scales. Try pinning with and without annealing.

Couple bucks for a bag of 25 or so from Wally or Craft store, they come in handy for cleaning, clip one end flat & wrap with steel wool.

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Lol that's awesome I'm gonna try that. Though today I pined three razors very well, that sounds like a good exercise! Reminds me of something we would do at a straight razor summer camp! :D

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Originally Posted by mainaman

I remembered one step that probably leads to my result, after I glue the wedge and the scales together I clean up with my pin vise and that must be making the holes flush so the pin goes through straight.

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What do you mean by clean up your pin vise?

Wedge pins will nearly always have a minor bend to suit the holes
Don't stress it.
Pivot pins should straight.
When pinning I only allow about half a pin diameter outside the washer to peen usually works fine for me
YMMv

Sounds like someone is pining for some pinning information. LOL!!

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Originally Posted by furious

Sounds like someone is pining for some pinning information. LOL!!

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Lmao! Oh God I just realized that! Lol

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Originally Posted by MikeT

What do you mean by clean up with your pin vise?

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Go in the hole and twist a few times, it cleans up the inside of the hole. If there is some misalignment during gluing it will be taken care of as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mainaman

Go in the hole and twist a few times, it cleans up the inside of the hole. If there is some misalignment during gluing it will be taken care of as well.

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Okay gotcha, since joining SRP, all this feedback has really helped me.. man I should've come out of lurking sooner!!!

Also I advise against using glue. It is not necessary, and makes it impossible to start over if something goes wrong.
If you pin correctly, the wedge will stay in place because of the pressure caused by pinning.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Also I advise against using glue. It is not necessary, and makes it impossible to start over if something goes wrong.
If you pin correctly, the wedge will stay in place because of the pressure caused by pinning.

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That's a good point. I've used glue before, glueing wedge to one scale, never both. Also did it without glue. Seems like good advice not to. Other guys use it maybe it helps in some respects and they might say "just don't mess up"..?
It would suck to screw up hours of work...

Always use CA on mine,when cured just run a 1/16 bit thru the hole held in a pinvice than peen it,never an issue.

Most of the time I do not glue my wedges. There have been times though when making crooked scales for crooked razors that I have glued the wedge on both sides and then got everything trimmed and ready to pin, drilled it cut the glue off and then pinned it. In a perfect situation with a perfect blade going into perfect scales you can just pin and go. It is when $&*& is all @$***& that you start to find new angles of attack and sometimes tha's when the glue comes out. If everything gets lined up the solvent comes out and then you can move forward.