Gap between wedge and scales -- help!

Hi Folks,

I've been working on a set of scales made of cocobolo with a CA finish and a wedge made of nickel. The problem is that when I mock them up there is a slight gap between the edges of the wedge of the scales. I'm completely certain that both sides of the wedge are totally flat (I leveled it out using my DMT) so the problem must lie in the scales. Does anyone have any tips for getting the fit nice and tight? My initial though was to simply mark off where the wedge ends and the sand or file the inside of the scales again but I didn't want to get carried away if I'm just missing something simple here.

In a related problem, the scales had matches the wedge perfectly before the CA finish. I'm surprised at how much they actually grew. Are people adding the finish after the wedge is set in, or how does one get the wedge to match so perfectly?

Any tips or insights would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

You coated the inside of the scales, but never sanded them flat, afterwards. And you made your wedge to fit before your finish.....right.!?

I like one or two thin coats of CA inside the scales, just to seal the wood, then sand them flat again, that's all.

As for the wedge. Make it to fit, but leave a little sticking out around the edges of the scales. With everything in mock up screws, and the scales totally finished, use a file to complete the shape of the wedge.

If you go through your finish, it can easily be touched up after the mock up pins are removed.

Now you can assemble the razor.!

Tadaa..!!:tu

Yep. Mike hit it perfectly.
Sand the finish off of the inside of those scales where the wedge sits. That will make things sit better. Then you might need to reshape the wedge-edge of your scales a touch to make it all line up perfectly. Then coat with CA to finish it. If you get everything perfectly lined-up and sitting flat 100% then when they are pinned, an extra coat of CA will make it look good. If there's a gap left and it gets filled with CA, it will look just like you have now. So make sure it's all flat together before that last thin coat.

Remember, as Mike said, that CA on the inside soaks into the wood. So if you sand it all flat after those inside coats dry, the CA is still IN the wood. You don't need to see a gloss on the insides.

At least this is how I deal with it. Have fun. You're almost there. And nice attention to detail!

Another thing that I try to do when fitting wedges is to scrape a slight hollow in the scales or wedge almost to the outside edge of the finished piece. That allows a pin to assure the edges are tightened and no gap.
How much to hollow? The thickness of a tissue or less.
YMMV
~Richard

I had a similar issue with a CA finish a few years ago. I should have just used enough to seal the wood as Mike mentioned.
Make sure you aren't pressing too hard in the scales when you are sanding them or you can flex the scale and make the gap worse. Ask me how I know!

And post a pic of your finished work! It looks like it is coming along great. My early rescale attempts were not very productive. I just ordered a set of those fasteners myself.

Really great response everyone, thank you! I'll sand the back of the scales flat and then take Mike's advice to file the wedge down afterwards. I feel like I'll probably have to redo the wedge entirely but that's ok, no rush here. I also really like Richard's suggestion of sort of setting the wedge in to the scale and will try that first too before redoing everything. I'll definitely post some pictures when I finally manage to get this all sorted.

Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge so openly and freely.

Kind regards,
Paul

I normally don't glue wedges to scales unless I am doing a CA finish-I haven't found a way to get a nice tight fit any other way

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTZZDEIPS74

On a lead wedge, I often make them a little large and wait until I have pinned the top.
Scales such as wood don't want to bend, so as pinning the top, the gap will appear.
Tap the lead in lightly all the way around and then smooth it.

After a lot of trouble, I finally am able to get a great fit with wedges. Here are my thoughts based on what you have shared.

1. Nickel is far to hard to get a good fit. Lead works well as it is really soft. My preferred material is horn as it is flexible and is cooperative with a tight fit. The problem with a harder metal like nickel is there is no flex.

2. It looks like you may have rounded the ends of the scale when you sanded them, which is really easy to do. my secret for flatness is using a file or plate glass with sand paper on top of it. A tight fit is a function of the flatness of the scales and the flatness of the wedge.

3. I haven't looked at it lately, though I think one of the really popular articles in the library says to make the wedge 1/2 inch long and pin it at 7/16. I've measured a bunch of modern Dovo scales. They pin about halfway between 1/4 and 5/32. I've moved to doing it this way. It helps close the gap and I've had no problems with cracking or breakage.

4. I have finish on my wooden scale surfaces on either side of the wedge. I try to get the scales flat on plate glass before applying my preferred finish, which is Tru-Oil. If I miss that, I'll get them flat on plate glass and put two thin coats of CA. If needed, I could smooth the dried finish with fine sand paper, though when using a flexible material like horn, it hasn't been an issue.

5. You didn't mention using CA to force the gap closed. I'm not a fan of this as it interferes with the small amount of flexibilty which I believe to be important for scales to have a long life.

You are doing great. Don't get frustrated as making scales fit properly is harder than it would seem.

I'm guessing the the primary challenge you are facing is the hardness of the nickel.

Everyone is making some great points here.
With razors, some see things others don't. The flat, the groove, the distance of the wedge pin.
Stuff we might do, or not.
We sometimes just don't know it until someone says it.

Good Thread!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pete123

After a lot of trouble, I finally am able to get a great fit with wedges. Here are my thoughts based on what you have shared.

1. Nickel is far to hard to get a good fit. Lead works well as it is really soft. My preferred material is horn as it is flexible and is cooperative with a tight fit. The problem with a harder metal like nickel is there is no flex.

2. It looks like you may have rounded the ends of the scale when you sanded them, which is really easy to do. my secret for flatness is using a file or plate glass with sand paper on top of it. A tight fit is a function of the flatness of the scales and the flatness of the wedge.

3. I haven't looked at it lately, though I think one of the really popular articles in the library says to make the wedge 1/2 inch long and pin it at 7/16. I've measured a bunch of modern Dovo scales. They pin about halfway between 1/4 and 5/32. I've moved to doing it this way. It helps close the gap and I've had no problems with cracking or breakage.

4. I have finish on my wooden scale surfaces on either side of the wedge. I try to get the scales flat on plate glass before applying my preferred finish, which is Tru-Oil. If I miss that, I'll get them flat on plate glass and put two thin coats of CA. If needed, I could smooth the dried finish with fine sand paper, though when using a flexible material like horn, it hasn't been an issue.

5. You didn't mention using CA to force the gap closed. I'm not a fan of this as it interferes with the small amount of flexibilty which I believe to be important for scales to have a long life.

You are doing great. Don't get frustrated as making scales fit properly is harder than it would seem.

I'm guessing the the primary challenge you are facing is the hardness of the nickel.

---

Wow, so many great tips here! It hadn't occurred to me that using nickel itself might be the issue; I'm doing another one up right now with a brass wedge so maybe that'll be a problem there too. A few old razors that I've pulled apart had really soft wedges too, which surprised me but, given what you're saying, now makes sense. I've made a few other scale sets before, but never with a CA finish (I've otherwise preferred Tung oil), always with a wedge made of the same material as the scales so it blends (I thought I'd try going for pop this time around), and always with the wedge glued in (which of course takes away any flexibility in the set up and I've also noticed that of the 4 or 5 old razors that I've pulled apart, none have had a glued wedge, so I figured the old guys probably knew a thing or two).

One thing at a time. Best.

If you are doing the scales for yourself or a close friend, lead is a great metal to use. It's been used a lot historically. It's no secret that lead has toxicity issues, though I would use lead for myself with basic safety precautions while working with it.

To me, whether the wedge should be the same color as the scales is an artistic choice, thus there is no right or wrong answer. I like seeing some contrast. Horn comes in multiple colors. Also, I've used acrylic and found that it had to needed flexibility to get a tight fit. Here's another artistic decision for me. When working with scales made of acrylic, I'm comfortable using an acrylic wedge. The great thing about acrylic is that it comes in so many choices.

For wood, micarta, horn, bone and other similar materials, I like horn.

I agree with Sharpton on focusing on improving in one area at time.

Just like life....ya goota crawl before u stand, and walk before u can run. Just put one foot in front of the other..
We fall, so to get up and try again. Success comes from failure, and learning.

Well, disaster... I was at the point where I had decided I was pretty much finished and was really happy with how things where and in one careless the "final tweak" resulted in one of the scales splitting. Sigh. Racking it up to experience, but I feel like my dog just ran away.

Bummer! I had one crack the other day too. Its a let down but a good reason to make a new set and put your new information to use. Good luck on the new set. BTW, be sure to keep the good one. It can come in handy as a template for others down the road. Some day you should have a drawer full of half scales and sets you replaced. Its part of the fun.

Don't let this get you down. I can't tell you how many I have messed up. The important part is to keep after it and enjoy the journey. Making and fitting scales is harder than it looks.

Have done my share of that! Part of learning.
Save what you can and continue.

ppetresen,

I got a little taste of my own medicine this morning. I was doing the final polish on my buffing wheel on a gorgeous pair of Gaboon ebony scales, didn't keep a close enough eye, had the buffing wheel grab the scale, send it flying and break a nice chunk out of it.

Argh. Why can't these things happen at the beginning of the process before I put all the work in. hahahaha

That stuff always happens at the end. Its telling you, you went too far! :banghead:

Sorry to hear my misfortune is being shared by so many others. Of course you're all right in that it's all about the journy anyhow, so really it's just a great opportunity to make another new set with the benefit of all the lessons so far learned. Really looking forward to the next set!