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Just picked this up at a local antique store.
I will be cleaning it up and trying to restore the coffin box that came with it over the next while, so I thought I’d start this thread to keep me motivated and to solicit advice.
Normally, I would put the blade into new scales, but I’ve seen what Outback has done to renew old scales with bug bites, so I will try my hand at that for the first time.
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Very cool man, can't wait to see what you do with it.
A little shoe polish will help the box, from my experience.
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Looks like ya have a heap of work to do on that blade. Can be done...with determination, patience, and buckets of elbow grease.
Any questions, give me a holler. Glad to help ya along, any way I can. Mr Reynolds made some fine implements worth restoring. IMO
There was a thread a long time ago where someone did some box repaired and in part they used paper mache, I seem to recall that was near the end of the process. If you could find the tread I think there was a fair amount of info in it.
Sounds similar to how I've repaired holes in boxes. I've used pieces of junk boxes to fix another.Quote:
Originally Posted by RezDog
Dr.Frankenstein, would be proud.
I haven’t started this project yet. I’m away from my razor tools for a short time, but will post progress pictures once I actually get started.
Thanks for the suggestions so far.
I know Outback uses bog oak and CA when repairing black horn scales, but I have none available. I heard about folks using powdered graphite and CA and did some internet research to find out how that works.
Found the following video that, for the price of a pencil, seems to suggest that might be worth trying.
https://digg.com/video/the-surprisin...ue-on-cinnamon
Actually I'm leaning more towards epoxy and ground, lump charcoal. It can be ground into a finer powder than bog oak, and is blacker in color, once finished.
Mike’s onto something with the carbon black. Grind the charcoal ultra fine before mixing and there will be a pretty paste like, hard curing black case when you are done. Just keep it runny and thin while applying or you will lose definition around the word pressings.
:tu
I have used graphite powder and epoxy for a dark jet black filler in some bark inclusions on a wood working project as well as for some holes and such in a glue lam beam recycled into a table top. Bothe were very dark black and finished well. I have never been all that wild on CA as a filler for wood projects. I have not used CA as a filler on scales either. I think outback has likely done the most of that sort of stuff and the next set of scales I need to repair I am going to order the structural epoxy that he used.
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Carbon black can be found at Art Supply houses as a pigment and graphite is purchased in a little tube which is to be used as a lock lubricant.
Being able to grind the charcoal into a fine powder does pack into smaller areas of bug bites, typical along the edges of the scales, and leaves a smooth, solid finish.Quote:
Originally Posted by RezDog
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Were as the bog oak is quite lumpy, and has a more porous texture.
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I also use charcoal powder plus some dark brown sawdust to give that slight hint of brown to the epoxy. Some horn more than others is lighter in color and the jet black shows in a patch.
https://sharprazorpalace.com/worksho...ml#post1939944
Unless you live in Arizona or similar arid climates use WD-40 instead. Locks don't really need much lubrication and work fine dry as long as they are free from corrosion. WD-40 is one of the best anticorrosive agents you can get and it is not oily. Oil is your other enemy with locks because the springs inside are so small(the wire is about the diameter of a beard hair) that the viscosity of the oil renders them inoperable causing the tumblers to stick.Quote:
Originally Posted by randydance062449
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On the left is a typical auto lock cylinder spring and on the right is a typical residential/commercial lock cylinder sprng.
In climates where there is any appreciable amount of humidity graphite will turn to gum inside the lock and if there is any oily residue it will turn into sticky gum actually making it work worse than it would clean and dry. In addition to that, more than a puff of graphite can be compressed by the insertion of the key and turned into a rock. I have pulled key shaped rocks out of locks where.the owner figured that if a little is good a lot must be great.
The one downside to using WD-40 is that it dissipates quicker than oil. Although this is actually a good thing it necessitates more frequent use. As a rule of thumb once per quarter/season is best.
I'm done...
Carry on...
Well I got to where my tools are and managed to separate the scales from the blade. You’ll see in the next post that was not entirely successful.
I used the 3M Marine and some 1200 wet/dry to remove most of the black stuff. The blade seems to be in excellent shape with the exception of some microchips that I’ll have to hone out later.
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When I tried to remove the scales, the pins were really stuck in the holes. I guess the horn had shrunk over the years. So I decided to cut them off with my side cutters.
When I tried to separate the scales, I used a flat blade screwdriver to act as a wedge and tried to ease the scales apart. That didn’t work and I wound up cracking one scale and leaving bits of the pin in each. I can drill that out later.
I am really intimidated by these old horn scales and would appreciate some advice about what to do next.
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Short, quick story...
1st, CA and clamp the crack.
Sand scales with 220 sandpaper, removing the old, dried horn from the scales.
Make epoxy repairs, sand repairs to match the contours of the scales. Then smooth with 400, 600, 0000steel wool.
Wipe with denatured alcohol, then you can dye if desired, then soak in neats foot oil.
Tape the outside of the scales with scotch tape, over the repair areas. Fill with epoxy from the inside side of the scales. The tape acts as a molding to create the shape of the existing scale.
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Looks good. Though I'd have to remove the hone wear. Probably not in your skill set wheel, yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by DZEC
Can always come back to it once your comfortable with the work needed to accomplish it.
Would removing the hone wear cause me to lose the etch?Quote:
Originally Posted by outback
Yep. For sure.
The etch looks good and legible, so leave it. If there was a bunch of pitting, then I would sand it out.
I hate hone wear, drives me nuts. Specially the wonky, uneven from side to side, and toe to heel. All caused by some ham fisted, unknowing, self proclaimed, honemiester.
Or the guy, that flat hones a smiling razor till its a true...straight edge, or it frowns. :gaah:
It's going to be hard to keep off that engraving trying to get rid of that hone wear. Because of the grind angle it is going to be necessary to sand over the top of part of it. Hopefully it's deep enough to still show.
When you peen over the tops of the pins it compresses them some which makes the pin swell. It swells and it will bevel toward the top. That's why the pins filled up the holes in the scale. It is always best to drill the pin through the scale especially on old horn which can shrink some. It is also a trick to keep from drifting into the horn. Use a drill press if you have one and go slowly. A cradle for the razor to keep it from tipping or scooting is also helpful. It doesn't have to be rounded. A block of wood with a triangular notch will work. Usually you don't have to go the whole way through, just enough to take the swelled top part off but it is better to go further than you need than have them crack. I think we have probably all done it before.
I use magnification when drilling pins. That way I know I'm staying centered on the pin.
I've only had a few crack, usually because of how dry the horn was. Very dry= very brittle. Some are best to soak in oil before disassembly. IMHO
Even have had some I've had to drill from both sides because the pin was badly bent.
If the pin won't push out with a punch, by hand...it hasn't been drilled enough, or the pin is bent.
I think I’ll take Mike’s advice and work on the scales and leave the hone wear for another time. The bevel seems good and as long as the geometry works, I’d prefer to leave the etching intact.Quote:
Originally Posted by outback
If I really screw the scale repair up, I have a couple of bone scale blanks I’ve been saving to try out when I find the time and the motivation.
Got the scales done. They aren’t perfect, but I’m very pleased with how my first attempt turned out. Thanks for the detailed advice Mike.
I used graphite powder and Gorilla Glue Epoxy for part and graphite and CA for another part. The Gorilla Epoxy took almost 24 hours to properly harden and the CA took much less.
Sanded down the rough spots this morning and now they go into the neatsfoot oil for a couple of days.
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While the scales sit, I’ll continue to work on the blade.
Maybe consider a little more time in the neatsfoot. Some leave them for weeks rather than days although some of that depends on how dry they were at the start. At least that's how I decide how long.
I'm typically soaking a minimum of one week for good condition scales. Others, even longer.
Let um soak while you finish the blade, they won't rot in the oil, but you'll probably have to flatten them again, once you pull them
Done for now. I wanted to assemble the razor, hone it and try it out later this week.
In spite of the hone wear, the geometry seems OK and I was able to get a reasonable bevel set.
My hone progression was Shapton 1k => BBW slurry to water => coticule slurry to water => Naniwa 12k
I’ll let you know how it shaves.Attachment 346226Attachment 346227
Looks good David. I look forward to hearing how that shave went.
Good stuff David. That has come together very nicely indeed. Great job on fixing up those old scales.
I sanded the scales down to remove any delamination and wonky bits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tathra11
Then I misread Mike’s sequence and put them in neatsfoot oil for 3 days while I waited to get to where my tools were. After cleaning the oil off with denatured alcohol, I repaired the bug bites and resanded and polished them. For polishing, I used the abrasive spongy things they use in. manicure shops to sand down nail ridges and put a final polish on the finish. They seem much gentler than high grit sandpaper.
They then went back into neatsfoot oil for another 2 days. So, I guess they were i oil for a total of 5 days.
I was surprised at the generally good condition the scales were in after sanding and sitting in the oil. They were quite flexible.
Next time I try this, I’ll wait until I’m where my tools are and be more patient.
I don't get manicures but I do use those spongy things to make my nails smooth and shiny.Quote:
Originally Posted by DZEC
I wonder if I should have said that.
Forget that, I am only joking um HaHa :(
I'm sure they're very pretty Steve. :roflmao
Those nail sponges work great for horn.
Waited until I had 3 days beard growth to give it a test shave.
It’s a heavy blade - feels almost like a wedge, but it is hollow ground, maybe 1/2 hollow.
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Got a close and comfortable 2-pass shave on my cheeks, but had a lot to clean up with a DE on my neck, but that’s always been a problem for me.
I wasn’t sure if I had tuned the edge fully. The toe end seems keen, but I think there’s more work to do on the heel.
I used a rolling X with one layer of tape across the entire spine. For me, that seems to put more emphasis on the toe than the heel. Have to work on that.
I wonder if I should try a second layer just over the heel. Any thoughts?
All depends on the hone wear, as to how it needs taped.
In essence, your trying to build the spine to original thickness, with tape.
I've had some that had to be taped differently on each side, from bad honing techniques.
Magic marker on the edge revealed that the heel wasn’t getting the love it needed from the hone.
Put about an inch or two of tape over that spot on top of the first tape layer and went back to the coticule and the 12k. That took the marker of the edge with the rest of the blade. I’ll try it out again in a day or so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DZEC
For a second there I thought you meant you put tape an inch thick on it.
Didn’t do that ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulFLUS
Finally got the entire edge the way it’s supposed to be.
I probably could have got there more quickly if I were more expert, but putting extra tape on the heel end of the spine and then going through the Belgian blue => Coti => 12k progression a few times has finally got me there. I finished with CrOx on leather and about 60 passes on my Japanese strop.
The shave was excellent - just wiped the beard away!
The hone wear can stay as long as the shaves are this good :beer1:
