Belt sander questions

I'm considering buying a small belt sander, probably one that uses 1x30" belts. There is a model I'm looking at, made by Grizzly. It's around $60 plus shipping.

Has anyone used one of these table-top belt sanders? I don't really have the room or desire for a stand-alone unit, so it looks like this is a good option for me.

Are there belts available in grits finer than 400? Or do you go to a buffer after the belt sander?

As a side note, it's funny to note the differences between woodworking and finishing metal when it comes to abrasives. In woodworking, 400-grit is "extra fine," but it's hard to find wet-dry sandpaper below that level for metal... The guys at the hardware store looked at me like I was nuts one time when I asked for 1000-grit sandpaper. :)

Thanks for the advice,
Josh

Josh, a 1x42 would do you better, IMO. It's easier to find belts for it, and in finer grits. A lot of it would depend on what you're doing with it. It wouldn't work for any kind of restoration on the blade, but would probably save you a lot of time roughing out scales. You can probably find a 1x42 for around the same money. Just my $.002. :D

Thanks, Joe. I was hoping you'd chime in... :)

I didn't realize that size existed... I'm off to Google it...

Josh

I've got an old electric motor I've been saving to make a grinder/buffer/sander. Anyone know where I can get collets, wheels and other supplies for such a project?

Joe,

I found a couple of different models of 1x42 sanders. They're a little more but not bad--maybe $130 or so.

But I'm not seeing sanding belts above 320 or 400... Care to share a source? :)

Josh

Kyle,

To answer your question about a DIY sander, I believe Woodcraft sells the parts you're looking for (at least some of them). Check out http://www.woodcraft.com

Josh, try this site. Pop's a good fellow, and has good stuff. 3M belts down to 5 microns will be finer than 400 grit.

http://www.popsknifesupplies.com/index.html

Kyle:

try here, http://www.jantzsupply.com/cartease/search-products.cfm

or, http://www.kalamazooindustries.com/belt_sanders.asp

There are Kalamazoo setups that do not have motors so you can save some money.

For those with the typical buffer/two stone wheel grinders, look into the Multitool. This unit will replace one of the wheels and gives both disk and belt surfaces.

http://www.ausmultitool.com/Item/MT362TG.htm

Look to autobody supply shops for really fine sandpapers. Occasionally the high end woodworking shops will have stuff but not very often in my experience.

Sorry to hijack the thread a bit, but you're not the Mike Blue I've seen mentioned on other knife fora (damascus etc?) are you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoshEarl

Joe,

I found a couple of different models of 1x42 sanders. They're a little more but not bad--maybe $130 or so.

But I'm not seeing sanding belts above 320 or 400... Care to share a source? :)

Josh

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Go to supergrit.com or trugrit.com. I believe they have those belts up to 800. (Mike's source works, too. :D)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by murph

... you're not the Mike Blue I've seen mentioned on other knife fora (damascus etc?) are you?

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Hey Murph, yup same fellow. Straight user too. I think every knifemaker should be as well. There's nothing like getting a razor sharp and cutting well to teach one about edge performance.

I knew a lot about knives and steel and most of nothing about razors before I found this place, it's been a great education in being more accurate about nomenclature, styles etc. Plus, with Joe's and Tim's recent handiwork, we'll all find out if some modern pattern welded materials will be up to the traditional standards of shaving.

One more thought about grinders. Starting out, I used a 1 x 42 grinder with a router motor attached. There's no need to comment on me being nuts for that choice of tool.

But, try to get as much horsepower as you can afford up front. I assure you, as you get better, you'll find yourself bogging down an underpowered machine or frustrated by not being able to get work done. Belts that drag the work away slowly, generate more heat. Still, RPMs will not make up for a motor that has no bottom end either.

Nother thought. The smaller machines also dull belts rapidly, if only due to the fact that they have less surface area for cutting, and again, generate more heat. Both situations can ruin a heat treated blade quicker than you can stop it. More grinding mistakes and accidents happen on used or worn belts.

Sharp belts run cooler and cut better. You have to treat the belts as if they are free and change to a new one before you think it's worn.

Thanks for the links and advice, guys. I'm still not sure whether I'll go for a 1x42 or a 1x30. One of the links Joe sent sells 1x30 belts up to 1000 grit but doesn't seem to go quite that high in 1x42.

I think I'm leaning toward the 1x30 to see if I like making scales. I can always sell it and upgrade if I decide to stick with it... :)

We'll see.

Josh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike Blue

Hey Murph, yup same fellow. Straight user too. I think every knifemaker should be as well. There's nothing like getting a razor sharp and cutting well to teach one about edge performance.

But, try to get as much horsepower as you can afford up front. I assure you, as you get better, you'll find yourself bogging down an underpowered machine or frustrated by not being able to get work done. Belts that drag the work away slowly, generate more heat. Still, RPMs will not make up for a motor that has no bottom end either.

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:bow :bow :bow

As you probably know from our BB forum, Mike getting decent, off the shelf grinders over here isn't exactly easy. :)
Understatement of the year, I think.

Josh, Lee Valley goes up to 1200 in 30 and 42: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...40&cat=1,43072

I have a Delta shopmaster SA150 it's a 1x30" belt and 5" disc sander. As Kyle76 alluded, Lee Valley sells belts in some very fine grits, but I've only ever used 80 and 120 grit belts on mine. The sander works wonders for roughing out basic scale shapes and curves, but there's simply no way I'd put an actual razor to it. The thing simply goes to fast, and, the type of motor in it doesn't allow for any sort of speed control. The only way I'd put a razor to it is with a quite fine belt (600+ grit) and constant lubrication, and, even then, I would hold the razor to it for more than a second at a time and likely be wearing some heavy gloves for protection. Even still, trying to do anything with a razor on it would be awkward; there just aren't any surfaces on it condusive to razor work.

LeeValley does sell a particular Grinder/Sander that could possibly be useful for work on razors if you got a relatively low power or variable speed motor to go in it. Haven't tried that, and don't know anyone that has though.

I wound up snagging a Delta 1x30" belt sander on eBay for a pretty good price. So now I'm off to Lee Valley for some belts... :)

I'm with Jason in that I won't be using this for blades, just scales. I want the higher grits to minimize the need for hand-sanding while polishing glossy finishes and fitting spacers... I have a feeling this is going to be one of those tools, like my Dremel, that I wonder how I managed to live without. :)

Thanks again guys!

Josh

Like Mike said, just make sure that you keep watch on your heat levels. It shouldn't generate much heat at all as long as your belt is sharp. As soon as it starts to generate heat though, switch it out. If you don't, it's super easy to scorch the wood (if that's what you're working with). It doesn't take long to get to that point, especially with the finer grits.

How long might I expect a belt to last? Say, a 600-grit belt working with hardwood?

I guess this means it's important to work up slowly through the grit progression, rather than just trying to make a medium grit do all the work. Maybe start with a coarse grit like 80 and work up from there?

Thanks,
Josh

Not sure about a 600-grit belt; I imagine that would load up pretty fast. You can get a crepe block (which is basically a giant art eraser) to mitigate having the surface load up with sawdust. I find that with the use of the crepe block, I can get at least a dozen sets of scales sanded with a single 120grit belt; you could probably get out many many more, but I love how nicely a fresh belt cuts, and they're not that expensive to replace anyway.

I've only ever used 120 grit belts on my sander. I have some belts in other grits, but I just leave the 120 on. To change the belt for each step of the progression of sanding scales smooth is just too much. I use the stationary sander for getting the shape down, then the standard dremel sanding drums to smooth out the shape, and then just sand smooth by hand.

So my belt sander arrived today via FedEx. Man, this thing is beat. :) But I got a good price and it works, so I don't mind if it's a little rough around the edges.

Over my lunch break, I ran home and grabbed a pair of scales that I'd partially roughed out with a coping saw. I loaded a fresh 80-grit belt and went at it.

HOLY COW THIS THING ROCKS!!! I was able to get the scales shaped in less than 10 minutes, and that includes sanding an extra 1/4 of waste wood away from the inside of the scales where I hadn't sawn away the excess. It's a piece of cake to operate, and shaping is much easier than it was with the rasp I was using before.

I started to bevel the outside edges so I could round the scales, and then I looked down... I had red-brown sawdust all over my work clothes... :D So that was all for now. I can't wait to play with this thing some more...

Josh

Which model did you get Josh? Could you hook up a shop vac to it? Sounds like you got a little padauk dust on you!

I got a Delta 1x30" model for around $50 on eBay. Their current model sells for about $120, so I'm pretty happy. It has the 5" sanding disk, too.

Yes, I can hook it up to my shop vac, which I'll probably do next time. :) Although this is a great excuse to shop for a leather apron...

Josh