Designing Scales

[CactusBob]

Reading through the post on the restore section we have a lot of very talented scale makers. Looking through these as a newbie brings one major question to mind.
"What makes a good set of scales?"
I'm not talking the fit and finish, thats important but is also pretty easy to determine, this is directed more towards the design. I know that some would say "because I like them", ok but that doesnt provide a full answer.

So I would like to pose this question to any who have made scales or have an understanding of the process.
How do you design a good set of scales?.
How do you balance them or determine the balance point?
How do you decide on the shape and change the balance if necessary?
How do you decide on the material and how do you decide on the finish for that material?

Or, is there a Secret Society of Scale Makers that I need to acquire the password and the secret decoder ring for?

Thanks,
Bob

[Kenrup]

The secret society is unlisted but you call at 901 555-1212 to get your information.

[Philadelph]

[quote=CactusBob;204303]I know that some would say "because I like them", ok but that doesnt provide a full answer. That is the biggest thing for some people I really think. Usually a person won't comment if they don't like a design. I personally think this should change to provide constructive criticism.

So I would like to pose this question to any who have made scales or have an understanding of the process.
How do you design a good set of scales?. For me, it starts with a basic shape or template somehow. I think that the standard scales shapes are really a good outline to give you the general shape. From there you can add or take away. The general shape that you begin with obviously needs to be large enough (small enough too) to fit the particular blade.

How do you balance them or determine the balance point? Personally I don't think about this. I haven't made a set that doesn't balance well enough to my knowledge though. It is kind of common sense in a way. If it is too big, heavy, or lopsided for the blade, it won't balance. Balance point is also debatable. Some say it is the pivot point exactly, some prefer closer to the blade on the tang. Makes little difference in my opinion.

How do you decide on the shape and change the balance if necessary? It all comes from the imagination past the basic tried and true scale shape. Executing that image is also part of it. But "deciding" on the shape is up to the maker or eventual owner really.

How do you decide on the material and how do you decide on the finish for that material? Also personal. Different materals and finishes have different positives and negatives. You need to know your options and test them to decide what you like, why, and when. Material is mostly aesthetic although there are plenty of different materials that have certain selling points beyond the looks.

Or, is there a Secret Society of Scale Makers that I need to acquire the password and the secret decoder ring for? Yes...

[Sancho]

[quote=Philadelph;204390]

I know that some would say "because I like them", ok but that doesnt provide a full answer. That is the biggest thing for some people I really think. Usually a person won't comment if they don't like a design. I personally think this should change to provide constructive criticism.

I think this important in these forums. If Philadelphia had not spoken up about my Joseph Rodgers restore then I would be sitting with a blade with horizontal grind marks.

More to the topic, The biggest mistake I see with hand made scales is that some are to bulky and I prefer that they are thiner and streamlined.

[vgod]

my first 2 sets were shaved down by hand from 1/4 to about 3/32 at the thickest part by hand with a file and sandpaper. good learning experience if you do not have a sander. my 3rd and 4th set were thicker, i think probably a little thicker than 1/8 all the way around. very squareish. one was a set for me, and one for a friend. there was a comment that they were coffee tables. to funny, but they are perfectly weighted and work well to myself and the friend.

i do not think that i will do any/many more in this style, but i saw a design form another scale maker and they worked for the blade, so i copied.

i like variety though. probably why my collection keeps growing.

vgod

More to the topic, The biggest mistake I see with hand made scales is that some are to bulky and I prefer that they are thiner and streamlined.

[Philadelph]

So from what I'm reading scale making is 1 part common sense, 1 part effort and 2 parts trial and error. Any of this seem right?

BTW today I called 901 555-1212 to get my decoder ring and it was busy now it says its been disconnected or no longer in use
Are you tryin to tell me somethin

I'd add at LEAST 1 part "artistic vision". I think that to be able to have an idea in your head and get that vision into your hands has a big part to play. I think some people are maybe more adept at this just because of maybe learning styles or whatever. Like remember when you were young you and 4 others might try to draw an apple from your memory and some would just look more like an apple than others?

P.S.- When Ken listed the number it had to be changed immediately.

More to the topic, The biggest mistake I see with hand made scales is that some are to bulky and I prefer that they are thiner and streamlined.

This is really a personal preference thing to a certain degree I would say. Like scales cannot be too thin OR too thick, but there is still a bit of room for your own tastes. How thick I like scales depends on whether they are flat or a curved profile as well as what blade they are going with, etc.

[yul b. nekst]

Due to too many people not being able to keep it a secret, I'm renouncing my membership in the International Brotherhood of Scalemakers. Of course now with that stated, I'd like to___________________________

We're sorry, but Yul has been, shall we say, made "unavailable" for the next few moments.

[floppyshoes]

Or, is there a Secret Society of Scale Makers that I need to acquire the password and the secret decoder ring for?

Damn, he's on to us...

+1 on what Philadelph said.

As for balance, it comes down to common sense. Heavy blades are better with heavy scales, and light blades with light scales. For the most part, all the blades I've scaled that ended up with very good balance were by chance.

[vgod]

i like the way that philadelphia answered and so i will stick with the format.

How do you design a good set of scales?,
How do you decide on the shape?(i don't care or worry about the balance either)
start with the original scales if possible. this is a good shape to learn to start with and you already knows that the shape works for the blade. using that as a template, it is pretty easy to drow off of and adjust the shape and design. just play with it and see what you come up with. also i look at other scales others have made.

How do you decide on the material and how do you decide on the finish for that material?
i see the other woods that makers use and really like some. and i go to the wood store and see what they have. i go through phases on finishes. i may do a few sets with CA just to get better, then jump to poly for a few, just depends.

mostly, it is all about trial and error. i love the shape of my first set, however i drilled the back pin poorly and they look like crap. trial and error. just have fun and see what you come up with.

vgod

[CactusBob]

So it seems that there is some common points to creating scales and a lot of it revolves around common sense. So does straight shaving for that matter, hmmm might be why theres' not more doing it.

So a good set of scales would need to
1) Be aesthetically pleasing for fit and finish.
2) Protect the blade when stored, I know a no-brainer
3) Be in proportion with the blade. A pencil thin set of scales on an 8/8ths W&B probably wont work well

And these would be open choices
1) Type of material, Corian, wood (most types should work, although it seems that harder woods might be better), Acrylic, Fimo, etc
2) Type of finish, Epoxy, CA, Oil, none, etc
3) Style from standard to exotic, such as Buddel and others create

So from what I'm reading scale making is 1 part common sense, 1 part effort and 2 parts trial and error. Any of this seem right?

BTW today I called 901 555-1212 to get my decoder ring and it was busy now it says its been disconnected or no longer in use
Are you tryin to tell me somethin


Bob