Any easier way to remove pitting?

So, picked this up on fleabay the other day.

http://www.wazny.com/images2/razors/...%20(Large).jpg
http://www.wazny.com/images2/razors/...%20(Large).jpg

After several hours of effort, and 3/4 of an 8.5x11 of 80grit sand paper, here is where it sits:

http://www.wazny.com/images2/razors/...%20(Large).jpg
http://www.wazny.com/images2/razors/...%20(Large).jpg
http://www.wazny.com/images2/razors/...%20(Large).jpg
http://www.wazny.com/images2/razors/...%20(Large).jpg

It is killing me. The 80 grit just doesn't seem to want to do much of ANYTHING to the blade. Fingers are killing me, and it IMHO isn't even half way there with the 80grit, before I move to less coarse grits for finishing sanding before polish. Any suggestions to a newb? Looked through the forums, and other than flap disks on a dremel (which honestly scares the crap out of me), no tips/tricks were found. I see MANY, BEAUTIFUL restorations here, any of the pros want to share the tricks of their trade?

dip it in hot acid, it will remove the stains. make sure you rinse off the acid immediately afterward or it will rust badly.

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Originally Posted by cotdt

dip it in hot acid, it will remove the stains. make sure you rinse off the acid immediately afterward or it will rust badly.

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Now this is something I would never do, or advise somebody to do.
cotdt, why would you say such thing? Have you experimented with this? If you have, please post the results, otherwise consider it a warning that continuing to post misleading information is a path you don't want to take.

There is a quicker way, it's called regrinding ;).

In all seriousness though, pitting like that will take quite a bit of sanding. Also be sure you're using an aluminum oxide sandpaper meant for steel; not garnet wood sandpaper as it's too weak to do very much.

regrinding is the quickest. send out to have it done by a restorer.

hire day labor to come sand for you. provide lunch.

don't know about the whole acid thing. i love to experiment and all, but from the horror movies i remember acid of any kind scares the be-jesus out of me.

throw away and get an easier project razor. (if this is an option btw, i will happily pay the postage to send to me. i likes a challenge.)

or you can just say, 'you know, it's old anyway. let's just leave the poor pits alone.' and then finish sanding to polish. unless the edge is pitted, they will not effect the shave. if they are in the edge, hone it out.

hope that some of these help.

good luck

vgod

I'm with vgod on that one, either send it out or live with it. I have a 1" W&B for barbers use and it has similar pitting. I did the same as you and put a few hours in and a bunch of elbow grease ....... and gave it up. Fortunately for me the pitting is above the edge so that isn't an issue. The rust is gone and I will live with the pitting. Here is some good info if you want to keep at it.

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Originally Posted by Lordkappa

There is a quicker way, it's called regrinding ;).

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Is that how the pros do their remarkable restorations?

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In all seriousness though, pitting like that will take quite a bit of sanding. Also be sure you're using an aluminum oxide sandpaper meant for steel; not garnet wood sandpaper as it's too weak to do very much.

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Yep, using Aluminum oxide, and even at that, it seems to loose all "cutting" ability after 30-seconds or so.

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Originally Posted by vgod

regrinding is the quickest. send out to have it done by a restorer.

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That's what I was afraid of. I'm sure restoration services don't come cheap.

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hire day labor to come sand for you. provide lunch.

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Day laborers get some serious money out here lately, like $10/hr. ;)

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don't know about the whole acid thing. i love to experiment and all, but from the horror movies i remember acid of any kind scares the be-jesus out of me.

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Yeah, I don't think that is something I'd entertain personally.

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throw away and get an easier project razor. (if this is an option btw, i will happily pay the postage to send to me. i likes a challenge.)

or you can just say, 'you know, it's old anyway. let's just leave the poor pits alone.' and then finish sanding to polish. unless the edge is pitted, they will not effect the shave. if they are in the edge, hone it out.

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Well, tossing it out isn't an option, so I'll just keep it around and sand on it from time to time I guess, until I get fed up enough to live with its final state ;)

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Originally Posted by TheContinentalOp

...Well, tossing it out isn't an option, so I'll just keep it around and sand on it from time to time I guess, until I get fed up enough to live with its final state ;)

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That's a good plan. Oil it well to keep any rust from getting started again and each time it even thinks about rusting. Maybe the next time it needs honing, give it another session with the sandpaper, then hone. Each time you'll make a little progress. As was said previously, only the edge matters for shaving.

You could carefully fashion a wooden form that matches the concavity. That would allow you to use the paper more efficiently. A similarly shaped block to lay the blade down upon, would also go a long way to not putting so much pressure on a flexible part of the blade you don't want to have fracture by giving it some support from the bottom.

I'd love to know what "silver combined with india" really meant.

That razor is deeply pitted in areas. It's slow going for you because there is no way to achieve aesthetic uniformity regardless of the sanding mode used (manual or machine) without removing steel on the ENTIRE BLADE to the depth of the deepest pits. But, you've already found that out.;)

I agree, keep coming back to that project when you have the initiative to work on it and then stop and put it away when you lose interest or get frustrated.

Chris L

Even if you reground it- if you wanted it looking good I'd say you'd lose some of that stamping on the blade "silver combined with...". The point is gone too. More space behind the notch than in front of it. This (along with the bad hone wear) tells me that this blade was once 8/8 or bigger where as now it looks 6/8, 7/8 at best (not at the toe!). I'd do a major overhaul if I were you and had the time/patience/money.

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Originally Posted by Philadelph

Even if you reground it- if you wanted it looking good I'd say you'd lose some of that stamping on the blade "silver combined with...". The point is gone too. More space behind the notch than in front of it. This (along with the bad hone wear) tells me that this blade was once 8/8 or bigger where as now it looks 6/8, 7/8 at best (not at the toe!). I'd do a major overhaul if I were you and had the time/patience/money.

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Good point. I'll see how much of the markings I can retail while still getting the pitting out. I guess I'll have to shorten the tip too. Damn, was hoping to not get too excessive. Keep it smiling edge (albiet less pronounced), or go flat.

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Originally Posted by TheContinentalOp

Well, tossing it out isn't an option, so I'll just keep it around and sand on it from time to time I guess, until I get fed up enough to live with its final state ;)

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I feel your pain. I've spent soooo many hours hand sanding, and I'm sure that others here have done 10x as much (I'm still relatively new).


This one had me walking away for weeks at a time. It was really 4+ hours just at 60 grit, not including breaks. Just put it aside for a bit, then when you have more free time and inspiration, have at it again for a while.

I assume that you're read the "hand-sanding how to" thread (by Bruno?). If not, it's well worth the read. Using a jig and a sanding block will make the process much easier on your hands.

Hey, a local! WOW, just WOW, that work is amazing. I may want to pick your brain about your setup since you are local. Where you at in Tempe? I'm in a historic district over by the Phx country club. You getting your scale material local?

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Originally Posted by TheContinentalOp

Good point. I'll see how much of the markings I can retail while still getting the pitting out. I guess I'll have to shorten the tip too. Damn, was hoping to not get too excessive. Keep it smiling edge (albiet less pronounced), or go flat.

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why would you shorten the tip???
definitely keep the curve to the edge - it's already looking a bit freakish to me from too much of the steel gone, if you straighten the edge i'll officially consider it one of the ugliest razors.
i'd live with the pitting,

Personally I like it with the pitting, it looks like an old blade and the pitting gives it caracter.

I buff the heck out of the pitting using a felt tip on a flex shaft grinding tool. Use a fairly coarse grade buffing compound, clean up with a so called fine finishing grade compound. Hit it from all different angles. Usually this seems to give me a mirror finish deep down into the pitting. It is sort of stupid, but I like the look, maybe it just helps me rationalize the pitting as character enhancement instead of defect. I only bother If I have a blade that I like and the pitting is localized on the thicker spine areas of the blade. Naturally if the rot is in the business edge it is dangerous to buff hard and will probably just come back anyhow. Any collector value is totally flushed down the tubes, of course. Purists will also sneer at me. That too is OK since I get to have the actual shaving experience without paying a fortune.

"Yep, using Aluminum oxide, and even at that, it seems to loose all "cutting" ability after 30-seconds or so. "

Well I don't know if it's semantics or what but silicon carbide wetndri works better & lasts longer for me.

After having restored several Wade&Butchers, I can say they are worth the effort-BUT put the effort into honing. Let's face it-do you want to look at it? Or would you rather shave with it?

I use a pneumatic die grinder with a scotch-brite pad.And then buff out the swirl marks with diamond paste. You have to be comfortable working with high speed tools WAY before you attempt to work near a razor's edge.Remember, it is at LEAST 100 years old. Its not supposed to look new:D

Unless you plan on having it reground by someone with the skills and equipment to do it right- I'd live with some of the "Patina"-hone it up and SHAVE. :gl:

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Originally Posted by flyboy

Personally I like it with the pitting, it looks like an old blade and the pitting gives it caracter.

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+1 with Flyboy, remember it is an old blade. If the pitting on my face is the same when I'm that age, I'll be well pleased.......:tu:tu:gl:

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Originally Posted by TheContinentalOp

Hey, a local! WOW, just WOW, that work is amazing. I may want to pick your brain about your setup since you are local. Where you at in Tempe? I'm in a historic district over by the Phx country club. You getting your scale material local?

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Thanks. I'm at Apache just past the 101, and work at university & mill.
I've gotten all of the wood I've used from woodcraft in Chandler, with the exception of the burl, that I ordered from bell forest products.
I got all of my hones at woodcraft too. If you haven't been there yet it'll be fun just to poke around there for a bit.

I posted in the meetings forum to try to get a PHX ares meet going. Hopefully we can get a few of us together to talk straights and techniques. Feel free to PM me with any other questions.

On topic, I think I'm with the others on just leaving the pitting that's left. It's still going to be quite the project to make, fit and finish the scales. Then the honing. Once you've finished that one and a few others, you'll have a better idea of what's involved, and it'll be easier to go back and finish this one if you're not happy with it.

I hope that helps.

I agree with Gugi that acid is an extremly bad idea and very dangerous made even worse by heating it!!!!!!!!!:chop::chop::chop:

I also agree with Gugi about leaving the pitting where it is due to it's depth. If youregrind the blade it will change the shaving characteristics a lot. I prefer to experience the blades\shaves in as original a configuration as I can based on how I received it. Most every blade I have that was used was in use longer that my experience with straights and I would like to shave with it in that configuration with few exceptions, like frowns. If the pitting bothers you get some MAAS and a tooth brush and have at the pits. It will not remove the pits but will remove the black in the pits. DO NOT USE ACID!! :gl:

#1 when hand sanding USE SOMETHING TO BACK THE SANDPAPER!

Your fingers are too squishy to apply effective pressure of the abrasive to the metal. I use a square or rectangle of 1/4" thick leather to back the sandpaper. It has enough give to conform to the curve of the blade, but applies even pressure to a wider area than your fingers do.

I sometimes use it flat, but usually I take a strip of sandpaper and fold the leather over double. This leaves a fairly tightly radiused curve to sand with, and also gives you a bit of a "handle" to grip the two ends of the folded over leather.

Its not an answer to your question, but I'd leave it or scrap it all together. To much sanding wears down everything real funny like and then you get a wavy bevel and a wavy edge when you hone.

Save your efforts for something better.

My two cents.


Mark

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Originally Posted by 0o.Mark.o0

Its not an answer to your question, but I'd leave it or scrap it all together. To much sanding wears down everything real funny like and then you get a wavy bevel and a wavy edge when you hone.

Save your efforts for something better.

My two cents.


Mark

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With all due respect:



NO WAY!!!!

That old W&B will shave like a champ once it's honed up. As said by others, if you just want to shine it up and leave the pitting, then by all means do so. It will still shave great.

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Originally Posted by Seraphim

With all due respect:



NO WAY!!!!

That old W&B will shave like a champ once it's honed up. As said by others, if you just want to shine it up and leave the pitting, then by all means do so. It will still shave great.

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+1

Definitely reviving an old thread, but I was digging through the old files and saw fellow Arizonans! Just saying hi.

What'd you do with the butcher btw?

I sure am glad you beat me on this one.

When shined up it will look good. The clean and shiny pits will give great character.

Good Luck