suggestions for polishing/polishing compounds?

Hello all - I've been working on hand sanding a few blades, but unfortunately even after 2000-grit sandpaper I'm still showing a bit of light scratch lines in some places that dont look so hot. I just read through the article in the wiki, and it mentions using a dremel, polishing wheel, and polishing compounds after the sandpaper, but doesnt go into detail about them. I dont have a dremel or polishing wheel, though I suppose if its absolutely necessary I'll have to get one.

I do have MAAS metal polisher, Simichrome metal polisher, and some wonder-stuff called Micro-Gloss, made by the same people who make Micromesh, an amazing universal polishing compound rated at 1 micron which works on everything, from plastic,horn, wood, to metal. Do I just need to go at it a bunch of times with those polishing compounds, or is there some other kind needed here? What can I do to substitute for not having a Dremel and polishing wheel? I realize I might not be able to get it as perfect as I could with the machine-help, and I'm okay with that for now.

Thanks for your help.

Yep, dremel or buffer (best results w/ less time) is what you need to finish off your blade. The dremel would be more useful for other things, just don't get a battery powered one.

thanks fo the advice - any recs on buying a dremel? i'm not going to be using it *real* heavily for now, so just a reasonable intro-level for now. do I need to buy anything particular as far as endings/wheels/buffing surfaces? thanks.

If you buy the buffing / polishing kit (I don't have the part number handy) and a bunch of felt wheels (part # 414) that will cover what you need to buff and polish blades.

One other thing to watch out for when sanding: make absolutely sure that all of the scratches from the previous grit sandpaper are gone before moving on to the next grit. I've had several times where I've had to drop back a grit or two to get a deeper scratch that I missed. If you ignore those deeper scratches they will stick with you all the way to the end, and won't buff out.

Oh, and do some reading or watch videos on how to safely use a dremel on your blades. It only takes a minor slip-up to destroy a blade or possibly take off a finger.

The first blade I ever used a dremel on is now at the bottom of the landfill.

I hand sanded my first blade over a few months. It took a very long time and doesn't look perfect but I learned a ton of info by doing it.

one thing I found is using more grits for example instead of going from 120 to 220 go 120 to 180 and then to 220.

I use the dremel 4000 series they sell at Home Depot and like it just fine.

I do not think dremels should be used for sanding at all. I almost damaged my blade trying to do some sanding with it and NEVER again.

Buy a bunch of felt wheels from Widget Supply of ebay and some Turtle Wax Premium Rubbing Compound and Maas. This really helps take it to that next level. Make sure you get a bunch of those felt wheels because they dirty up fast. I think I used about 5-6 for my first blade.

I still have some scratches in it, but I'm satisfied because I learned a ton of stuff doing it and will take that info on to the next blade.

Whoa!!!! Before you get a dremel you really need to consider your abilities using it! One slip and the chuck going at 10,000 RPMs will RUIN your razor! IME using a dremel is almost more trouble than it's worth because of these two reasons. (I'm not even crazy about working on scales with a dremel.)

I had the same problem with scratch marks and I found the answer using hand sanding. Read here. Bottom line, consider how light a touch you're using, how well you took out lower grit scratches before moving up, and if the "levels" you're using are as gradual as possible.

Second, read this thread about using a vibratory tumbler. If I had to choose between investing in a tumbler or a dremel for restoring razors, the tumbler would be my first choice. The tumbler will take a while, but you will be able to go from a rugged looking piece of metal to a cleaned and shiny razor ready for the hones without any skill or elbow grease. And you can't accidentally grind a chip into the edge with a tumbler like you can with a dremel.

If you're a pro with a dremel then maybe you can go ahead an use it, but IMHO it's not the best way to sand a razor, especially for a newbie.

thanks, bingo bango (hilarious avatar by the way) - wel that sure does complicate things. I was definitely thinking that if I was going to use the dremel I should get or make one of those little "safety jigs" that holds the razor. presumably if I had one of those I would be fairly safe. I cant say I'm a "pro" with a dremel as I've never had one, but I'm fairly - not super - handy with such things. I have some rinkydink razors I could sacrifice to the learning curve, if that's all that's necessary..... I like that the dremel can be used for other things, a bit more versatile.

also, about the tumbler - do I have to get a pretty large one to fit the razor? And will I have to detach the razor rom the scales in order to put it in? any advice on which tumbler? e.g.: Amazon.com: Hornady M2 Case Tumbler 110 Volt: Sports & Outdoors or NEW VIBRATORY METAL JEWELRY ROCK CASE TUMBLER POLISHER : eBay Motors (item 330407362773 end time Feb-28-10 11:09:20 PST).

one other thing - havent finished reading glen's thread (Really long!) but he estimates this takes to a similar place as 2K grit sandpapper - I was thinking that the dremel was already for everything ABOVE 2K, so do I still need something for that last stage beyond the vibratory tumbler?

Those tumblers are on the right track - just a matter of price now.

The MEDIA and the LOAD will determine the finish. You'll have to read the whole thing. I can get a mirror polish with corn cob and Turtle Wax after going up to 2K SP. Walnut and wax can get the heavy rust I think, but don't quote me. Someone did a wiki that cut it down to a smaller format. It might be helpful. See Here. I think you might have to take the razor out of the scales. Again, check the thread first. If you decide to unpin the razor, you'll need some more materials and gear and that's another discussion, but the wiki and available threads will answer that easy.

Back to the dremel, you have to use a light touch and it's easy for it to "get away from you." If you're finishing up the polish and put a ding in the razor, get ready to start all over. I was using the dremel for just that and felt it wobble once then decided it was tumbler time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijbil

Hello all - I've been working on hand sanding a few blades, but unfortunately even after 2000-grit sandpaper I'm still showing a bit of light scratch lines in some places that dont look so hot. I just read through the article in the wiki, and it mentions using a dremel, polishing wheel, and polishing compounds after the sandpaper, but doesnt go into detail about them. I dont have a dremel or polishing wheel, though I suppose if its absolutely necessary I'll have to get one.

I do have MAAS metal polisher, Simichrome metal polisher, and some wonder-stuff called Micro-Gloss, made by the same people who make Micromesh, an amazing universal polishing compound rated at 1 micron which works on everything, from plastic,horn, wood, to metal. Do I just need to go at it a bunch of times with those polishing compounds, or is there some other kind needed here? What can I do to substitute for not having a Dremel and polishing wheel? I realize I might not be able to get it as perfect as I could with the machine-help, and I'm okay with that for now.

Thanks for your help.

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One no power solution is Simichrome or other polish and a measured folded
patch of brown paper or news print.

Apply a small amount of polish and then fold the paper over the
back and pinch it while pulling from heal to toe watching to keep
your fingers clear of the sharp edge.

The dremel is a very dangerous tool when dealing with razors.

If I didn't already have one, I probably wouldn't buy it and go the tumbler method.

I believe I had read about a few people who killed their blades using a dremel when polishing. I know Glen strongly advises against using one.

I found it to be useful for applying the Turtle Wax via felt wheel, but I was nervous using it the whole time.

If you do end up buying one, make 100% sure you get a variable speed dremel. The ones that are not variable speed spin so fast, not only is it not safe for your blade, its not safe for you. I rarely push my variable speed dremel past about the 50% mark of speed.

I also recommend no sandpaper... only use it for polishing compounds... you can try greaseless on felt wheels, but, you have to reload them so often that its not really worth it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijbil

What can I do to substitute for not having a Dremel and polishing wheel? I realize I might not be able to get it as perfect as I could with the machine-help, and I'm okay with that for now.

Thanks for your help.

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Going back to the OP, I recommended a dremel simply due to it's other uses. Unless you reload, a tumbler set-up can get rather expensive to use just for razors unless you plan on restoring quite a few. A buffer setup is also expensive, but you can put a mirror like polish on a blade in short time..but you are limited to buffing. A variable (like Undream mentioned) speed dremel is still what I recommend, I have all of the other goodies in the shop & the dremel is more versatile for a hobbyist.

hmm. well there sure is divided sentiment on this one. is there really much danger to the razor with the dremel if I'm not doing sanding, just polishing and buffing with felt wheels? or is the danger more to me? also, what's the verdict on whether I need to unpit the razor to use the tumbler? (seems like they're big enough if I could just rig it so that it's stays open. and then the scales too would get nicely polished.) I'm not averse to learning to unpin and repin razors, though I also thought with lots of oldies it's better not to unpin them unless really necessary.

also, for the simichrome - thus far I was mostly just using it a bit at the end. is the idea that you just have to do a billion times? or that you use it with some high grit sandpaper instead of water?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijbil

hmm. well there sure is divided sentiment on this one. is there really much danger to the razor with the dremel if I'm not doing sanding, just polishing and buffing with felt wheels? or is the danger more to me? also, what's the verdict on whether I need to unpit the razor to use the tumbler? (seems like they're big enough if I could just rig it so that it's stays open. and then the scales too would get nicely polished.) I'm not averse to learning to unpin and repin razors, though I also thought with lots of oldies it's better not to unpin them unless really necessary.

also, for the simichrome - thus far I was mostly just using it a bit at the end. is the idea that you just have to do a billion times? or that you use it with some high grit sandpaper instead of water?

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Yes about half a billion times with simichrome.
However the quickness that paper and simichrome turns
black is an indication that it works faster than many
expect. No polisher is quick and all depend on a fine
finished surface prior to polishing.

well, I'm pretty convinced about the tumbler - seems pretty amazing how far it can go, how many different stages it can eliminate -and with no elbow grease. I'm thinking I might be able to rig something up to avoid having to unpin the razor...but if I hav eto learn that, probably a good thing.

I was looking at polisher/buffers - and they have random orbital ones that look just like my random orbital sander. can you get buffing wheels that you put on a regular random orbital sander? if so is there any disadvantage to doing that rather than having the dedicated buffer/polisher? one thing is it seems the polishers are variable speed, which the sander isnt....

$.02 again:

I have to disagree with Shooter - IMO tumblers aren't that expensive. You can get one around $50 or so online, the media will run you about $20 for corn cob and walnut (check pet stores to get it for less), and the wax is break even since you'd need it with any other polishing device. So for $100 you're definitely set up. A variable speed dremel starts at, what, $75? Before you get all the extra stuff...

I think Undream and Fingers are right about the risks of a dremel. It's easy to let the dremel slip and hit the razor, and it only gets easier as you increase the RPMs. I've seen videos of people going pretty willy-nilly with a dremel, too - hand tightening the bits and pushing the limits of the tool. The whole thing is pretty unstable. Hit your finger with a 60 grit piece of SP going at 10,000 RPMs if you don't believe me.

As for putting a razor in a tumbler with the scales on, I wouldn't. A few reasons: It won't be able to clean or polish the pivot in between the scales, and adding some sort of "rig" will only cover more of the razor and leave "tumbler lines." The razor could move around and put some forces on the pivot area or scales that might break them. If you've ever unpinned scales (poorly) you know how fragile celluloid/bakelite scales are. And the biggest reason for me, if the scales are that important not to risk unpinning the razor, why would I throw the scales into a tumbler?

When I use sandpaper or a dremel I place the razor on a piece of soft linoliem glued to a board about 6"x6" and keep it flat with the edge against the linoliem. It is soft enough to not damage the razor but it is also sort of rubbery and keeps the blade from slipping. Using a dremel is ok if you keep the edge flat against something, otherwise the dremel might catch on the edge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mackie

Using a dremel is ok if you keep the edge flat against something, otherwise the dremel might catch on the edge.

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Yep!

Regards - Walt

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/r...d/IMG_1373.jpg

Walt:

Were you rotating the dremel felt with or against the edge?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijbil

hmm. well there sure is divided sentiment on this one. is there really much danger to the razor with the dremel if I'm not doing sanding, just polishing and buffing with felt wheels? or is the danger more to me?

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While Dremel is a very handy tool for doing this and that and almost anything, it is also easy to make a real bad job both to your workpiece and yourself if you don't know what you are doing. At least remember to wear safety goggles when working with high rpm tools.
What it comes to polishing compounds i use Autosol and Farecla G3 when polishing metal objects. They work ok with Dremel and with polishing by hands also.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

Walt:

Were you rotating the dremel felt with or against the edge?

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I don't remember Shooter. It was several years ago. But, whichever way it was rotating had to be the wrong way. :rant:

Regards - Walt

follow-up: hey guys (especially those advocating against the dremel); is the advice against the dremel, esp about it being dangerous (to me and the razor) mostly about using the dremel with sanding or grinding wheels? or does it also apply to using it for polishing & buffing wheels?

I've got a Ryobi modelling drill (from back in the days when I made model aircraft) which can take the Dremel buffers. The benefit with this one is that it doesnt have an on/off switch, but a push button. As soon as you let go of the button the bit stops which I found quite useful when I started using it on razors. If it catches, let go of it and it stops immediately.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijbil

follow-up: hey guys (especially those advocating against the dremel); is the advice against the dremel, esp about it being dangerous (to me and the razor) mostly about using the dremel with sanding or grinding wheels? or does it also apply to using it for polishing & buffing wheels?

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You can mess up with sanding & polishing wheels as well. It is the high rpm speed that makes Dremel little dangerous when used incautious.
As i wrote, Dremel is really handy tool for multiple tasks, but there are certain risks when using it.

. If you are going to use one just remember to keep the edge lightly pressed against something so it doesn't catch and always run the wheel following the edge not against it so it doesn't catch on the edge. Small buffing wheels are especially dangerous that way since the cloth will grab and tear a chunk out and possibly throw it at you. I use one all the time but you have to be careful. I have a foot rehostat on mine so I can stop quicker but I doubt anyone would be quick enough.

The key, ABSOLUTE KEY, is to keep the rotation of the dremel wheel spinning away from the edge. I personally only use the scotchbrite type buffing wheels, wire wheels, and buffing wheels on straight razors & do the sanding by hand. I just feel like I get a more uniform finish that way. The wire wheel works great for cleaning out jumps & the abrasive buffs literally wipes away any rust from a "new to me" razor. Then I use the tumbler. I personally don't feel like dremels are "dangerous", it's like any power tool and must be used properly & all safety protocols must be adhered to. Routers are dangerous on the other hand...err...right hand ring fingertip!