Joseph Allen & Sons, smiling wedge

Hi,
this is my first wedge project. And it is my first smiling edge. Here are data:
- This is a 9/16 in razor
- Pins and washers are brass
- The scales are celluloid
- The blade is smile
- The tang is stamped Sheffield England which puts it after 1890. Prior to that imported goods only had to have the city they were produced in so the older blades just show Sheffield, after that they included the England stamp.
- this razor has barbers notch

The blade was not in good condition when I purchased it. There was pitting and small holes or nicks on the blade. This is third razor what I have honed ever. It was good feeling to note that this razor have quite soft metal compared to my two other razors. One of those are new stainless steel Dovo and very hard metal.

I was looking a straight wedge what is very sharp but I have now smiling wedge what is dull. It was accident. The seller told it is a straight and shave ready honed but when I received the delivery I got dull smiling blade. When I had survived the initial shock I put feedback to seller and he was sorry. He suggested the trade canceling. I was thinking two days or night, what to f*** I do with this case. Then I decide to keep it and take one's courage in both hands.

The first rolling 45* strokes was so slowly and carefully. I have used one layer of tape and I use parmanent marker when needed. Then I just do it and now it goes quite easy. I have not calculated strokes or time what I have honed it but now I have noticed one thing. This really is very soft metal and I believe I can hone this knife. I am now at 1k stage and the pitting are soon gone. I use a x30 loop to have a closer look. It is very rewarding to see how the process are going on. I have other project knife "Narva" and I have honed it A LOT. A ten times more or something than this case and there are not so much progress on it.

So, I am still a beginner honer. But I have feeling that a smiling is easyer to hone than a straight. Because it is more naturall motion when your wrist can do small motion during the stroke. On the normal x-stroke it feels quite hard to get blade totally flat and equally pressure on each side at every time. Most of stokes goes ok, but then there can be not so good stroke and it can be harmful to the process.

When honing a smiling blade it is like Precision Guided Weapon (I could not find better word, hope you got the point). This case had a uneven bevel on the heel at the front side of the blade, so you can easyer focus on that point what needs extra strokes.

This case was a accident but I am finally one experience richer. This is fun :)

Here are two before photos.

I'm sure those are two after pictures and not before. Either way it looks great. You did very well . Good job!

You said it had pitting and wasn't in good condition to start with. Can you tell us what you did to remove the pitting?

Firstly I am sorry about my unclear description.

I have not polished or restorated the blade. I have only honed it. The pitting was on the bevel area only. My goal is to get it sharp.

I wrote the blade was not in good condition. Because I was buying a very sharp knife, this is what the seller told to me. I meant the bevel area, there was some pitting and that are soon honed out.

When I got the knife, firts I made test shave. That was quite terrible experience. It was DULL. Then I made some careful strokes with my Chinece 12K. I could not get it sharp. Then I take my 8K, and same result with that. Then 5K and finally I took my 1K. Then I think I must take a closer look with my x30 loop. Then I saw the pittings on the bevel and I realized how bad the blade was.

Those pictures are before. Those are taken by the seller.
My camera (nokia 5800) is veeery poor, so I can not take any closer pictures where you can see those pittings.

ps.
This is not so easy because my english is not so good. Sometimes it is hard to find right words.. But I am trying.

Hello,
yesterday I had time and I took my stones and I continued honing process. The 1k stage was almost done earlier in Juni, so it did not take a long time when it was done. I can not remember how many strokes I had done earier. But now I made about 150 strokes until I think it was done.

Then I took 5k stone. I made more than 100 trokes. There was minimum nicks what I coud remove with 5k stage.

Then 8k stage. I made about 150 strokes.

And finally Chinese 12k. I made only 80 strokes, because time was running out. Strokes with 12k was extemely carefully and even less pressure on than earlier stages.

I am not calculating strokes so accurately. I do so many strokes what are needed. Some progress have happened with my technique, because I done very carefylly and slow strokes. I begin to understand how important it is to do slow&careful stroke = faster&better result. I am using a permanent marker, loop and wet finger pad to make sure that the each stage was done. I finalized each stage with extra less pressured strokes.

I stropped it with 70 strokes. Then I done the test shave. It was quite good. Some dragging was there, but not any pain. There are still work to do.

Now I have to tell this is my first blade what I have honed from start to finish :cool:

Today I have to do 50 - 70 strokes with Chinece and then do proper stropping with it.

I have had to take a restored blade back to the stones more than once myself. It's just as bad or worse than honing a NOS razor...Just go easy on the 1K stone, no since taking more metal than you need off the razor. Glad to see you used the marker to ensure you have a good even bevel. Sounds like you are well on your way to having a good shaving razor.

Thanks for the encouraging words. I have feeling that I have overhoned my blades. Because I do not completely know when the current stage is done. There are atleast one good thing, I have got lot of practise. I have also thinked, why did not I bought at the begin a 4/8 Norton and gone on with a pyramid. Because here are detailed instructions how to do a Pyramid. Now I am messing around with these stones, without understanding how to use them..

Yesterday I lapped my 8k and Chinese. And I made a Chinese slurry stone with hacksaw. The 8k had a very deep concave, so it took quite long time when it was flat again. Also I understood if you have honed a wedge you must do lapping before honing a straight with it. Now, when the stones are flat again I took my straight Dovo and performed some strokes with it. The result was quite good, again. But not nearly ybersharp. I have never had/shaved with ybersharp straight razor. I have a dosposal Dovo with short 39,4 mm blade. It is sharpest knife what I have used, simply it is sharp and no dragging, it is my reference knife. Maybe I must send the Dovo to the honing service to get a real reference. Then I can continue honing lessons with my Joseph&Allen.

The new thing was using a slurry stone with Chinese. I really liked the touch what it are offering. Earlier I had used Chinese dry, without water. There are much more a drag with slurry and much more sense. So the dry stone gives almost any feedback. The slurry is good thing.

What should I next do. I must take time out and focus more to stropping.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikkoH

Thanks for the encouraging words. I have feeling that I have overhoned my blades. Because I do not completely know when the current stage is done. There are atleast one good thing, I have got lot of practise. I have also thinked, why did not I bought at the begin a 4/8 Norton and gone on with a pyramid. Because here are detailed instructions how to do a Pyramid. Now I am messing around with these stones, without understanding how to use them..

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Very nice razor you have there. Are those scales plastic or horn?

My method for honing might be little heretic, but here's how i do:
Set the bevel. Coarse stone and 1K are ok. I do not count the strokes. I keep going until the bevel is done all along the blade on the both sides. This is the thing that has to be done. Once the blade cut arm or leg hair on every point then the bevel is done. Check that the bevel is set once again before going to finer grits.
Once you move to a finer grit, be it 3K, 4K, 5K or whatever you have there, use it to remove the honing marks of a previous grit. If you have a loupe, it helps. Once the marks are gone (or replaced with a finer marks) then there is no need to use that grit any longer but move to next finer grit and so on.
In the end you suddenly hear tadaa and you have a sharp razor in your hands. Strop and shave.
Remember that it all depends on the bevel. The finer grits are mostly for polishing.
Once this is done, sit down on your new terrace and reward yourself with a beer (or any favorite drink of your choice).

The scales are celluloid.

What you wrote is similar than I read from the srp wiki. I must believe you. I prefer to print those articles, it is comfortable to read them on my brand new terrace and havea a :beer2:

Also I took the bevel a closer inspection with a loupe and I think I saw a duplex bevel. In the very beginning when I started this case I used a 3 layer of tape, because the bevel was so poor condition. There was small nicks and corrode on the bevel area. Then there was 2 layer and now I am using one layer of tape. So, the bevel is not yet ready. There are still work on with 1k stage. The question is: when it is set? It is set when it cuts arm or leg hair on every point. But I feel uncertain when it really is set. I have to make test shavings with my arm&leg hair often, because I do not want to overhone it. This is first time in my life when it is very good that I have quite hairy arms and legs :D

Hope I have time on next weekend to continue this case. I have to keep in mind: the good bevel is key to the sucsess.

Yes, the bevel is the key to your success. You have to hone the bevel with your 1K until you have "one" bevel along the entire edge. This may take time, but you have shown patience. Once you have one bevel along the entire edge & it will shave along the entire edge, move up to your next stone.

I personally use "ovals" while honing on the lower grit stones (1K & 3K). Lynn mentioned it somewhere & I think there may even be a video of him doing it. About every 10 ovals on either side I'll check my progress. It seems to help me on overhoning & avoiding "wire edge". I'm not recommending doing this until you find the video (I'll try to find it too) that I saw this in. I am a poor teacher trying to type instructions, I'm better at showing, sorry. The video explains much more, maybe someone will jump in that knows of the video I am speaking of...
Scott

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That didn't work, try this:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...ar-honing.html

I found it...here's THE MAN: http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...ng-videos.html

Thanks for the videos.

Yes I have used this circular honing method with my other training knife Narva. Also when I was a kid I honed my pocketknife like that ;-)

I have not done it with a smiling wedge blade. I have to try it. Hey, it is like honing a pocketknife, it has also a curved blade. Do it like a normal 45 degree tilted stroke, but just add that circuling effect to it.

I have to start it very carefylly. Only few rounds per stroke, as you wrote. I do not want a serious uneven bevel to it like I have on my old pocketknife...

ot:
On the end of the last video was a stropping demonstration. It looked so easy and nice. I looked it like mesmerized ;-)
On the future I have to look those srp videos more. There can find good hints and things.

This is why I wanted you to see the video's. Reading is one thing, but seeing is another. I know that I may not get the full "picture" if I am reading it, but to see something is like "oh yea..."

I'm just glad you got to see them & that they helped. Have you purchased Lynn's video that is on cd? It has much, much good information.
Scott

Yes, I have purchased Lynn´s video. It is great information packet.

Last weekend I tried circular honing method. It is quite powerful method and you have to be carefull when honing like that. When comparing a regular rolling stroke and a circular rolling honing, the circular method cuts very fast. On the surface of the stone are suddenly a lot of removed steel particles. And those pits what are on the bevel area, were "moving" very fast to the edge. When using a regular rolling strokes, it is so slow (and safe method). On the stone you can hardly see any removed steel particles.

Do not stay long on a one spot. When honing a front side of the blade, use counterclock wise ovals. And vice versa on the back side of the blade. And take a look very often the honing result on the bevel, or you can have a uneven bevel.

I must try to keep on my mind: go slow and use quality consentrated strokes. This is what Lynn was emphasizing on the video.

Hope I have time to continue this case on tomorrow.

Your observations are correct, you can remove a lot of material quickly with the oval/circles, thus you can mess up rather quickly. From what I understand, Lynn hones quite a few razors, so the quicker he can set the bevel & move one to the next stone, the better. All in all, it's just another way we can get our razors good and sharp. Circles/ovals are great for a razor that is extremely dull (by razor standards) & then the "X's" are great for touching up a bevel and restoring a razor that is starting to pull a little...errrrr...that's what I do anyway. That's the great thing about our "sport", as long as you get there, the journey can be quite different for each and every one of us.
Scott

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

That's the great thing about our "sport", as long as you get there, the journey can be quite different for each and every one of us.
Scott

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+1.
I couldn't have said it better!

Here we go again.
Last weekend I had a grrrreat time with this case. Now I am quite sure (again ;-) the 1k stage is set. There should be a true bevel...

I had to go once back to the 1k. I performed about 30 strokes with the 5k, then I saw with the loupe there was a minimum area where the bevel was not set. So I took it back to the 1k and performed only few strokes and I finished this stage with extra careful strokes. As I said, there should be now a true bevel. The bevel looks different than earlier. It has only one shiny area when I turn it a little and look how the light are reflecting on the bevel. My arms are shaved well..

I am currently now in 5k stage. There are still work on this stage, but I can now see this stage is much faster than 1k was. Now I have performed about 40-50 strokes and I can already see the progress. Now I understand the idea because I have seen it my self. As you have been written earlier, "you have to remove previous hone marks before going to higher grits". So I have to remove 1k marks, then I can go to the 8k.

I have gone slow and used loupe a lot, because I do not want to screw up it now. I have good feelings about this.

Your patience and persistance are going to get you there, I have no doubt. You are doing it all right, don't get in a hurry and you will have it...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sailor

In the end you suddenly hear tadaa and you have a sharp razor in your hands. Strop and shave.

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Today I heard a quiet tadaa.

Testshave was quite ok, even I had two days beard what means it is very hard beard. Therefore I do not usually shave after two days. And usually I shave after three or four days (because so far I have not had a sharp knife). Less shave less pain. I hope that I will never have to use a dull blade.

Yes, it is usable now. But it is hard to say final judgement, because I have not used a wedge earlier. There are difference in the feel. First I have to use it couple of times, then I am wiser.

Big thank for helping :bow

Hi again,
now I can do a comparing because I have an other wedge too. It was nice to shave with two knife at the same time. I could not feel any difference on the sharpness between those. I have to believe it is sharp. This newer wedge was shave ready and it is a bit wider blade than the Joseph Allen. The J&A feels so tiny. This was first time when I shave with the new one. (This is stupid but I do not remember name or size of the new knife. I am writing this at my working place.)

On the wedge are different soud, it fleels it is not a sharp but it just cut the beard. When stroping it, it is like metal bar. But I like it.

My wife think I am totally crazy. She do not understand why I must have several knifes. I do not either understand her things ;-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikkoH

Yes, it is usable now. But it is hard to say final judgement, because I have not used a wedge earlier. There are difference in the feel. First I have to use it couple of times, then I am wiser.

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Hello,
now I have shaved with J&A couple of times. It is sharp and feels good to use it. This is my favourite razor, because it is my first own hand honed blade.

Btw I have learned stroping too. Now I undesrtand how important stroping is. You can not achieve good result without stroping. It is crucial. When I was struggling with my honing technique and I did not strop the blade. Thatwhy I could not get shap blade. When I first time really tried to strop after honing, the result was much better.

Now I have done new bevel to my stanless steel Dovo. It was my very first knife ever. And I started my honing lessons with that about one year ago. Then I knew nothing about honing, stroping or spine taping etc. This was reason why I resetted the bevel with one layer fo tape. I can say it was quite easy and fast to do. Because I have learned my lessons. Now it is sharp and nice to use too ;)

Next I must continue with my Narva project.

You sir have grown in knowledge immensly.

Thanks to you.