Thread: Joseph Allen & Sons, smiling wedge

Hi,
this is my first wedge project. And it is my first smiling edge. Here are data:
- This is a 9/16 in razor
- Pins and washers are brass
- The scales are celluloid
- The blade is smile
- The tang is stamped Sheffield England which puts it after 1890. Prior to that imported goods only had to have the city they were produced in so the older blades just show Sheffield, after that they included the England stamp.
- this razor has barbers notch

The blade was not in good condition when I purchased it. There was pitting and small holes or nicks on the blade. This is third razor what I have honed ever. It was good feeling to note that this razor have quite soft metal compared to my two other razors. One of those are new stainless steel Dovo and very hard metal.

I was looking a straight wedge what is very sharp but I have now smiling wedge what is dull. It was accident. The seller told it is a straight and shave ready honed but when I received the delivery I got dull smiling blade. When I had survived the initial shock I put feedback to seller and he was sorry. He suggested the trade canceling. I was thinking two days or night, what to f*** I do with this case. Then I decide to keep it and take one's courage in both hands.

The first rolling 45* strokes was so slowly and carefully. I have used one layer of tape and I use parmanent marker when needed. Then I just do it and now it goes quite easy. I have not calculated strokes or time what I have honed it but now I have noticed one thing. This really is very soft metal and I believe I can hone this knife. I am now at 1k stage and the pitting are soon gone. I use a x30 loop to have a closer look. It is very rewarding to see how the process are going on. I have other project knife "Narva" and I have honed it A LOT. A ten times more or something than this case and there are not so much progress on it.

So, I am still a beginner honer. But I have feeling that a smiling is easyer to hone than a straight. Because it is more naturall motion when your wrist can do small motion during the stroke. On the normal x-stroke it feels quite hard to get blade totally flat and equally pressure on each side at every time. Most of stokes goes ok, but then there can be not so good stroke and it can be harmful to the process.

When honing a smiling blade it is like Precision Guided Weapon (I could not find better word, hope you got the point). This case had a uneven bevel on the heel at the front side of the blade, so you can easyer focus on that point what needs extra strokes.

This case was a accident but I am finally one experience richer. This is fun

Here are two before photos.

I'm sure those are two after pictures and not before. Either way it looks great. You did very well . Good job!

You said it had pitting and wasn't in good condition to start with. Can you tell us what you did to remove the pitting?

Firstly I am sorry about my unclear description.

I have not polished or restorated the blade. I have only honed it. The pitting was on the bevel area only. My goal is to get it sharp.

I wrote the blade was not in good condition. Because I was buying a very sharp knife, this is what the seller told to me. I meant the bevel area, there was some pitting and that are soon honed out.

When I got the knife, firts I made test shave. That was quite terrible experience. It was DULL. Then I made some careful strokes with my Chinece 12K. I could not get it sharp. Then I take my 8K, and same result with that. Then 5K and finally I took my 1K. Then I think I must take a closer look with my x30 loop. Then I saw the pittings on the bevel and I realized how bad the blade was.

Those pictures are before. Those are taken by the seller.
My camera (nokia 5800) is veeery poor, so I can not take any closer pictures where you can see those pittings.

ps.
This is not so easy because my english is not so good. Sometimes it is hard to find right words.. But I am trying.

Hello,
yesterday I had time and I took my stones and I continued honing process. The 1k stage was almost done earlier in Juni, so it did not take a long time when it was done. I can not remember how many strokes I had done earier. But now I made about 150 strokes until I think it was done.

Then I took 5k stone. I made more than 100 trokes. There was minimum nicks what I coud remove with 5k stage.

Then 8k stage. I made about 150 strokes.

And finally Chinese 12k. I made only 80 strokes, because time was running out. Strokes with 12k was extemely carefully and even less pressure on than earlier stages.

I am not calculating strokes so accurately. I do so many strokes what are needed. Some progress have happened with my technique, because I done very carefylly and slow strokes. I begin to understand how important it is to do slow&careful stroke = faster&better result. I am using a permanent marker, loop and wet finger pad to make sure that the each stage was done. I finalized each stage with extra less pressured strokes.

I stropped it with 70 strokes. Then I done the test shave. It was quite good. Some dragging was there, but not any pain. There are still work to do.

Now I have to tell this is my first blade what I have honed from start to finish

Today I have to do 50 - 70 strokes with Chinece and then do proper stropping with it.

I have had to take a restored blade back to the stones more than once myself. It's just as bad or worse than honing a NOS razor...Just go easy on the 1K stone, no since taking more metal than you need off the razor. Glad to see you used the marker to ensure you have a good even bevel. Sounds like you are well on your way to having a good shaving razor.

Thanks for the encouraging words. I have feeling that I have overhoned my blades. Because I do not completely know when the current stage is done. There are atleast one good thing, I have got lot of practise. I have also thinked, why did not I bought at the begin a 4/8 Norton and gone on with a pyramid. Because here are detailed instructions how to do a Pyramid. Now I am messing around with these stones, without understanding how to use them..

Yesterday I lapped my 8k and Chinese. And I made a Chinese slurry stone with hacksaw. The 8k had a very deep concave, so it took quite long time when it was flat again. Also I understood if you have honed a wedge you must do lapping before honing a straight with it. Now, when the stones are flat again I took my straight Dovo and performed some strokes with it. The result was quite good, again. But not nearly ybersharp. I have never had/shaved with ybersharp straight razor. I have a dosposal Dovo with short 39,4 mm blade. It is sharpest knife what I have used, simply it is sharp and no dragging, it is my reference knife. Maybe I must send the Dovo to the honing service to get a real reference. Then I can continue honing lessons with my Joseph&Allen.

The new thing was using a slurry stone with Chinese. I really liked the touch what it are offering. Earlier I had used Chinese dry, without water. There are much more a drag with slurry and much more sense. So the dry stone gives almost any feedback. The slurry is good thing.

What should I next do. I must take time out and focus more to stropping.

Originally Posted by MikkoH

Thanks for the encouraging words. I have feeling that I have overhoned my blades. Because I do not completely know when the current stage is done. There are atleast one good thing, I have got lot of practise. I have also thinked, why did not I bought at the begin a 4/8 Norton and gone on with a pyramid. Because here are detailed instructions how to do a Pyramid. Now I am messing around with these stones, without understanding how to use them..

Very nice razor you have there. Are those scales plastic or horn?

My method for honing might be little heretic, but here's how i do:
Set the bevel. Coarse stone and 1K are ok. I do not count the strokes. I keep going until the bevel is done all along the blade on the both sides. This is the thing that has to be done. Once the blade cut arm or leg hair on every point then the bevel is done. Check that the bevel is set once again before going to finer grits.
Once you move to a finer grit, be it 3K, 4K, 5K or whatever you have there, use it to remove the honing marks of a previous grit. If you have a loupe, it helps. Once the marks are gone (or replaced with a finer marks) then there is no need to use that grit any longer but move to next finer grit and so on.
In the end you suddenly hear tadaa and you have a sharp razor in your hands. Strop and shave.
Remember that it all depends on the bevel. The finer grits are mostly for polishing.
Once this is done, sit down on your new terrace and reward yourself with a beer (or any favorite drink of your choice).

The scales are celluloid.

What you wrote is similar than I read from the srp wiki. I must believe you. I prefer to print those articles, it is comfortable to read them on my brand new terrace and havea a

Also I took the bevel a closer inspection with a loupe and I think I saw a duplex bevel. In the very beginning when I started this case I used a 3 layer of tape, because the bevel was so poor condition. There was small nicks and corrode on the bevel area. Then there was 2 layer and now I am using one layer of tape. So, the bevel is not yet ready. There are still work on with 1k stage. The question is: when it is set? It is set when it cuts arm or leg hair on every point. But I feel uncertain when it really is set. I have to make test shavings with my arm&leg hair often, because I do not want to overhone it. This is first time in my life when it is very good that I have quite hairy arms and legs

Hope I have time on next weekend to continue this case. I have to keep in mind: the good bevel is key to the sucsess.

Yes, the bevel is the key to your success. You have to hone the bevel with your 1K until you have "one" bevel along the entire edge. This may take time, but you have shown patience. Once you have one bevel along the entire edge & it will shave along the entire edge, move up to your next stone.

I personally use "ovals" while honing on the lower grit stones (1K & 3K). Lynn mentioned it somewhere & I think there may even be a video of him doing it. About every 10 ovals on either side I'll check my progress. It seems to help me on overhoning & avoiding "wire edge". I'm not recommending doing this until you find the video (I'll try to find it too) that I saw this in. I am a poor teacher trying to type instructions, I'm better at showing, sorry. The video explains much more, maybe someone will jump in that knows of the video I am speaking of...
Scott

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