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I posted a comment about G10 jade ghost scales wondering why not use real jade and made an offer to send my two unused jade hones to be cut into scales well if the upload worked this is what you would be working with.
first a little description, these two hones I bought last year they were supposed to be 4k/8k combo the white and green one and a 12k+ the solid one. frankly I don't like them they are just too hard and no feed back what so ever.
Hard stones are not bad because they are hard but softer stones are easier to use for beginners till they develop a light touch.
Are they smooth in use eg don't feel any of those visible inclusions ? Are they fast cutting ? or slow as a wet week? I've never used or even seen a jade hone. Interesting.
They may not work as scales as a certain amount of flexibility is desirable as the tapered tang works thru its range of travel & well, they are rocks :)
Oz, they are very slow cutters and no you don't feel the inclusions at all . very very smooth I think the added fact that I only use water and not oil which I think these are probably designed for doesn't help much.
About the flexibility ya I could see that being an issue. one member who works with stone asked me if he could play abit with them cut em down and keep a set of scales . sure why not have a try I wont use them for anything and I can always get more.
JADE?!
Wow...Where'd you get them? How much were they? I'm so intrigued. Who ever thought that Jade would make a hone?
One thing...I know it was just a passing comment, but remember--Natural hones are never, ever designed for anything. They aren't intended, not made, not anything else involving some kind of teleological plan. They are found, and tried. Oil stones are oil stones because lots of people have used them and said "Hey, these work pretty well with oil." The same with water stones.
You may as well forget the idea of making them into scales as they wouldn't work. I too am interested in where I could obtain one or two of those jade hones.
If it works I would like to see it. I don't know enough to say it will or won't work, but it would look interesting. I too would like to know where you got those as they look interesting.
You could do it, but you'd need to mount the jade on a liner, and divide each scale into something like 3 sections, so there wouldn't be any pressure on the rock itself. They'd be heavy as hell, but still would look really nice if done right. Maybe something like this that was done with a fossilized bone--
Bill's Straight Razor Info: Making Scales 101
I bought them off the Chinese shopping site called taobao ( this site on one day alone made more money then all of the business going through hongkong)
The seller has lots more these cost me I think 600 rmb or 90 usd for those of you that are curious.
all different qualities I am sure as many as there are qualities of jadeite.
I think they are used to hone chisels.
I have two jade working factories near my house and I can tell you most work is done with electric tools but some of the finer detail work is by hand.
I have no tools and no space to put them sadly enough.
As to the weight I can imagine they wouldn't be light and most likely really only balance well with a heavy wedge but if it could be worked out i am sure the whole east meets west razor look would look cool specially if the scales were carved.
In addition to that imagine the price a thing like that could command on the Asian market..
shayne
could you tell me the diminsions on the hones. I really think that it is very possable to make scales from them. jade is usually a very hard rock and i really dont think that it would be too hard to work with, it really just depends on the length of the rock as well as the scales for the razor. the one gentleman said you would have to back them and such and i think he is right because you could support the stone as well. the really big issue is that the length of the stone and the thinness of the rock would put pressure in the middle of the scales, to combat that a pin could be inserted into the middle of the scales to provide support as well as to provide for appropriate spacing for the razor itsself.
spencer
spencer,
they are 8 inches long 1 inch thick and 2 inch wide the combo is the same but the jade half is half as thick.
perhaps some of you have seen chinese women wearing jade bracelets the solid round ones. the conventional wisdom is even if they fall down most likely the bracelet wouldnt break. they look kinda frail (the bracelets not the women) but its really tough material I think.
Jade is of course mined and there is plenty of it. First you have to distinguish between nephrite which is called jade but isn't and is cheap and plentiful and the mineral Jadeite which is the real mccoy. Usually colorless to green and in between. The stuff thats transparent is worth a fortune and the translucent stuff is much cheaper. Opaque stuff is reasonable. True Jadeite is very hard stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shayne
My mother tried on an antique Jade bracelet around 40 years ago. She then couldn't get it off. She has worn it ever since. I was told the story that if you fell and the bracelet broke it saved your life.
I have some Jade hiding somewhere in my basement and this thread is going to start another project.
Tim
Scales need to flex...
Rule no.1 for happy lifestyles: Know the boundaries of form and function. Trying to cross them will only result in frustration, and $90 of ruined jade...
I might be showing my ignorance here but I thought that was the reason that some scales used a third pin.Quote:
Originally Posted by BKratchmer
Tim
Adding a third pin does nothing to make a material any more flexible. It can be used to add a little extra bow to a flexible material, but it doesn't change the properties of the scale itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by 32t
I thought the third pin was to keep the blade from falling through a wide gap in material that wasn't flexable.Quote:
Originally Posted by BKratchmer
Tim
I really wish I had the computer skills to make some sort of graphic, but even if the third pin was supporting the razor, the scales would still need to flex to meet at the tang of the razor...Quote:
Originally Posted by 32t
Without a picture I don't really know how to explain it... but take a look at good scales, and you might see what I'm talking about. I'll try and scan a sketch to show what I mean.
You probably could create a set of scales such that the scales don't flex and the third pin acts to support the tang.... in much the same way that you can shave with a microtome. Or you could make shoes out of your hones... There are ways to make it work, but there are other things which are designed for the job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BKratchmer
I will take a look at mine. I see that you have mentioned attending the Minnesota meet and I do to. This would be a good topic of discussion as I learn better by seeing. And I can explain myself better in person.:)
If the tang was designed to have flexable scales it would be tapered to make them flex. For rigid scales a paralell tang design wouldn't impart forces on the scales. Would the solution be a custom tang for custom scales? Rambling again and time for me to go to bed.
Tim
Nice mental image there.Quote:
Originally Posted by holli4pirating
shayne
i really think that it could be done with the jade, with a little extra work on supporting the jade using brass as a backing for the stone so the brass would be taking all the flex from the opening of the razor as well as three pins for the support in the middle of the scales. you have seen knives with inlays on the handles this is what im talking about. I also do silver smithing so i could also us silver to use as a inlay material if brass wouldnt work but i think that the brass would be better since it wouldnt tarnish as fast as the silver. please let me know because at this point my creative desire to see if it will work has been raised. if you decide too let me know on here and we can work something out.
spencer
The tapered tang/tail and flexible scales is the reason the razor is more snug when it's opened. If you use straight everything, the razor will not snug up properly; it will either be always very tight or always loose. AND, getting a razor like that would require regrinding the area around the pivot or having the blade custom made that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by 32t
Doing large inlays, like Oso mentioned, seems much more practical, but I would still be worried about the overall lack of flexibility. That would, I guess, depend on the size of the pieces and where they are put. Not to mention the weight...
How about hones out of shoes?Quote:
Originally Posted by holli4pirating
+1 very hard to carve and work. I don't know what kind of hone it wold make. I have a freind that's a jewlery designer, and sometimes folks would get jewerly stuck and he would say "No problem, we'll just lock you in the vault for two weeks and it will slip right off"....Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
Mike:dropjaw:
I know it has been used for knife sharpening but never heard of use as a razor hone.Quote:
Originally Posted by MODINE
Lol, shoe hones may work great to work those calluses. Shamwow watch out, I see a new informercial :rofl2:Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeDubb65
...ok sorry off topic
Or strops out of Florsheims ?Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
Quote:
Originally Posted by BKratchmer
Take a look at this beautiful razor. In particular the last picture.Quote:
Originally Posted by holli4pirating
http://straightrazorpalace.com/custo...s-micarta.html
There is no third pin and the tang is tapered but the reason I bring it up is that the tang does not touch the scales. I can envision a Jade Dragon if that blade had jade scales.
I could agree that Jade is heavy and would be hard for the average person to work. Why cut up a hone rather than selling it to someone that would use it for it's intended purpose and buying a slab already precut in the demensions needed? Reasonable and practical questions. But if we would all be reasonable and practical the average person would have a beard.:D
Tim
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
Are you two talking about Light in August?Quote:
Originally Posted by onimaru55
Well, I wasn't thinking about customs when I posted. But still, the reason that razor pivots and snugs properly is because the scales flex and the blade is tapered at the pivot.Quote:
Originally Posted by 32t
Trust me, I have had "razors" with straight tangs and no bow to the scales, and they are just not right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 32t
But what matters is not a third pin, or the shape of the tang, or whether or not the tang touches the scales... what I've been saying the whole time is that-- as you can see in your picture-- the scales flex.
In your experience and in the general norm that may be true.Quote:
Originally Posted by BKratchmer
Tim
Jimmie crickets , now I just want to see it succeed or fail out of sheer suspense , I have absolutly no Idea about the outcome but people seem to be kinda polarized.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shayne
+1
Good luck
Tim
Take any razor and open it and close it and watch closely..whether or not there is a third pin there is still some flex to the scales. I cant remember where but as mentioned before someone has made scales out of glass to see if it would work..but..he used a rubber type wedge in order to have some flex somewhere along the lines. Somewhere along the line there has to be some give somewhere. The only way I see it working is to have a flexible rubber type wedge or have some play in the pivot pin..and then the razor will be floppy and not snug. But thats just my 2 bits. I'd still like to see it done..i'm sure it would be beautiful :)
Interesting idea about the rubber wedge. That would certainly help.
Someone with the right skills and equipment could also probably create a compressible pivot as well. I'm envisioning thicker scales with a larger diameter depression on the outside around the pivot pin, washers inside and out, and with microfasteners instead of a traditional pin.
However, it's worth pointing out that silica glass is quite flexible compared to stone.
My concern is that by the time you do all the floating connections, and have thick enough scales that they could stand the tension, you'd be left with a razor that weighed half a pound.
I seem to recall a thread on this exact topic a year ago. Maybe a year an a half, although nobody had suggested a rubber wedge last time I looked.
I have worked with a material called true-stone or gem-stone made for pen turning, It's about 80 percent pulverized stone and the rest is a synthetic base I think its acrylic or a similar material. if it's more the look you are going for than it being real stone. it would be much more durable in this application than natural stone. Especially if put on a backer material. I have actually been interested in jade hones for a while and if you still have them might be interested in buying them from you. if you are interested PM me and we can talk more.
Here is a link to a site that has the Jade Gem-stone Gemstone Pen Blank-Imperial Jade, 7/8 x 7/8 x 5 1/2 [PBGem-ImperialJadeOS] - $11.99 : Arizona Silhouette inc. - Suppliers of Eye Candy, Proudly Offering Exceptional Products and Resources for the Wood Turner The thing to consider with this is wether it would be big enough for the scales you are looking to have made at 7/8 an inch by 5 1/2 it would have to be a smaller razor they where going on.
I'm seriously considering making a jade (nephrite) handled razor for my friend's birthday on 12/12/12. He's been growing a beard for years, the joke being that it will protect him from the Mayans. After the "end of the world, he won't need the beard anymore, so we're gonna shave it off. I think a jade handle will be fitting for the task.
I agree with the others that a traditional razor handle would not work well in something like jade. But who says we have to be traditional. There are plenty of ways to design a pivot that doesn't require flexible parts. Just look at almost any piece of machinery for examples. For my project I'm going to do away with moving parts all together, and make a fixed blade. This will allow for better control of the balance point and simpler construction.
Phillip
If you are interested pm me i can send you links for the chinese sites let me know what catches your fancy i can order it for you and get it sent . I don't and won't make any money off of it just act as a proxy.
In the absence of light don't pray for a miracle use night vision.
Now, I am chiming in. I have a Swede razor with each scale made from one piece of Mother of Pearl. ( Heljstrand MK-31 ) They do not flex! The inside line is absolutely straight and the razor is fitted to the scales with the correct taper to rest closed at 8mm high at the toe.
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...MOPMK31--2.jpg
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z.../MOPMK31-1.jpg
I have seen some hard scales which were ground on the inside to a slight curve to approach the look of a normal pair of scales. Ivory, composition and this bone plus horn and a few other materials will flex. Solid stone don't!
Yes the razor is somewhat loose in the pivot. But for a couple hunnert bucks, what do you expect?
added note, True Jade is an extremely tough material and will ring like a bell when struck; a really beautiful and lovely material. Difficult to carve and it will last for a long time. On razor??? Who drops a good blade? YES!
Respectfully
~Richard
Post Script. Now if the wedge was of a slightly compressible material, the scales could...be tightened onto two domed, thin spring washers, one on each side of the blade at the pivot. Look up Belleville washers/springs.