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I was in the process of restoring a Dubl Duck Satinedge when I realized the tang was bent and complicating the process of scale making. Tried to straighten it but ended up snapping the tang off about a 1/4" from the blade and was wondering if any had any ideas on a possible fix. It shaves to nice to just pitch it or let it go.
You could try some sort of soldering, just make sure you have ice or some sort of excellent heat-sink attached to the blade side before the blade starts.Quote:
Originally Posted by swampkeeper4570
Or, you could try setting the whole affair into a new acrylic tang. (This is what I would do... seems like a fun project!)
Sorry to hear about the damage.
Personally, I would advise against trying to solder that broken bit. Most lead-based solders don't really grab onto steel as well as they grab onto the non-ferrous metals like copper and brass. In any case, a lead-based solder is just going to be too weak to form a reliable bond on such a small, butt-joined break.
Brazing might successfully join the broken ends, but because of the higher temperature required for this I fear that you would succeed in overheating the steel and ruining the temper.
What might work to save the razor would be to carefully cut two cheek pieces of sheet brass (or even stainless steel) the length of the tang and sister them on either side of the join using a good quality epoxy. Don't forget to shape the cheek pieces properly and drill out the holes on either side for that rear pivot pin. You will want to clamp this up carefully while the epoxy is setting. If you do decide to try this, don't use a five-minute epoxy. Choose, instead for a long set epoxy (24-hour setting variety) which will give better strength. This is not an ideal solution, since you end up with a thicker tang, but that seems a reasonable trade-off. Of course, with only about a quarter inch of steel tang coming off the rear of the blade, this might still be something of a questionable join, but better than anything else I can think of in this situation.
If you come up with anything let me know...
Hmm... this has me pondering as I do my laundry. I am really intrigued by this...
It could be rewelded, but that brings on other problems.
See if you have either a gunsmith or a blacksmith in your area, or perhaps a custom knife smith, these people should be able to weld and re temper the blade.
Cheers
Heelerau:beer2:
I think I would drill into the broken pieces with a cobalt bit at a slow speed using a lot of cutting oil. Insert a metal pin and epoxy the ends together using the metal rod to strengthen it.
This is a kind of pinning used when modeling. I've never tried this with a razor and the hardened steel will be a bastard to drill.
here is another thought. sorry for poor drawings.
Attachment 57243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undream
Good illustration, Brad! That's what I think would be the best, most secure method. Definitely an advanced project, but it could be a lot of fun!
Use a covered tang design and use titanium or some such as the cover.........screws could be inset from the back??
Thank you all for your responses! I like the idea of making a two pinned, narrow tang but what would you need in order to grind down the tang precisely enough without ruining the temper of the blade? Otherwise, the acrylic option is good too. I have never tried manipulating acrylic though.
A good grinder--preferably with a flat platen--, a steady hand, and a cup of cold water.Quote:
Originally Posted by swampkeeper4570
Has anyone ever tried JB Weld. Its a 2 part glue that is for metal repair. I have used it for repairing the pivot hole when its way to big. Just fill the hole then redrill the hole where it was. It works great for that. It should reattach the halves together with just a seam where it broke. You can sand it like metal and drill it. It was for repairing car motors. Its really good stuff.
Keith
I too was going to say JB Weld or PC7 Epoxy. I've used them to seal unwanted emmissions vent holes on intake manifolds for old MGs - they do work really well for bonding metals back together in situations where welding or brazing isn't an available option (to get a glass-smooth finish on them dip your finger in a little water and then lightly rub the epoxy surface)...
That said though, Undream's solution would probably the most reliable and professional looking option (without the expense of a professional metalsmithing - which, in itself, would still destroy the maker's mark anyway).
I've nothing to add to the good suggestions already put forth by those who know a lot more than me. But I have a question.
Judging from the context the blade was being 'straightened' somehow, not far fetched to imagine that brute force was involved - the scales are still attached to the (sad looking) tang so no annealing was used. It follows that either by pushing or pulling, or impacting an attempt was made to bend... tempered steel.
Let me again remind you I know nothing about a whole bunch of stuff.
Is it not the case that tempered steel is brittle and not plastic? Seems like a really bad idea to try to reshape it, doesn't it?
I mean no disrespect to anyone, and my heart aches for the loss of such a beautiful object.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Something like Heat Fence will work well as a barrier while soldering or brazing.
Heat Fence 352-HF-12 - He HF-12 12 oz. Tube
Uhhh.... my heart just dropped viewing the photograph. Looks like it has a fine crystalline structure = nice material.
My suggestions since there's not much more to loose is to either have it welded. Refinish the tang (you may loose the hallmarks). If you weld the piece I would recommend having the person doing the work to immerse the blade in a material like Kool Jool, Thermaguard Protective Blanket or an alternative heat shield to best keep the temper of the blade. Having a bladesmith re-temper the blade would be tricky as the edge is so delicate.
Or... 3. drill and rivet the tang so you can mount it in a hardwood handle.:idea:
The grinding and welding/soldering sounds tricky and I think I might go with the drilling and repinning to a new tang. Hope it doesn't come out looking too Frankenstein'd. I assume the cooling agents would also be helpful, along with cutting oil, during the drilling process.?
sorry to resurrect a thread that is a couple months old, but I ran into a similar issue with my 1st restore. I was test fitting it in the scales and no matter what I did with the pivot hols in the scales or washers, it seemed to always close to one side (a lot). I finally realized "hey, this thing is bent!". So, not knowing any better, or at least not thinking clearly - I clamped the blade in a vise, and tried to tweak the tang by hand. Uh, not happening. This stuff is HARD. So, I slipped an 18" jack handle over the tang and gave it a nice, easy pull. It worked! Thinking about it now, I have no idea why it didn't snap. Just dumb luck I guess, and I was trying to be gentle (as gentle as you can be with a pry bar and a vise, lol).
How about micro-welding? Check out the samples here Micro Weld America - Laser Welding Samples
On the farm we had the drain plug on the transmission housing of a truck get broke off when the truck was run over a hidden stump. I can't for the life of me remember the name of the epoxy we used, only that it is a high-heat tolerant automotive epoxy. We glued the spout back on, and it held up until we got rid of the truck 2-3 years later. There are some seriously seriously seriously strong epoxies out there if you are willing to sacrifice a little bit of aesthetics.
I have never used this stuff: Epoxy by the Leading Epoxy Manufacturer | WEST SYSTEM Epoxy but I would imagine marine-grade epoxy has got to be able to take a serious beating.
What I would do if this happened to me is a little JB Weld magic. If you drill matching holes lengthwise into the tang on either side of the break (as in, drill a hole into the broken surface), a small bit of metal rod can be glued in to help hold the two sides together, and add sufficient strength and stability.
I would try some kind of glue suitable for metals. No big forces are involved, so I don't see why it shouldn't work. If you do it right, I won't come apart ever.
I had this happen to me today.
as a quick & easy fix, I have bought some loctite 435 (stronger, faster, and cleaner than JB-weld)
tested it by knocking the tang of the razor against my desk while holding the spine in my hand.. it held.
it was roughly 30 euro ex VAT for a small bottle, but it WORKS! (also works for scale materials like G10 if you ever want to experiment with a pinless design for the wedge) -- I have a bit of a GAD too :P figured this was an excuse to go all-out.
I think i'm still going to put some small TIG welds on the blade just because.
this should be precise enough to let me spot weld the top & bottom of the tang while the blade is submerged in a cup of water without losing any of the important temper, or the stamp.
then file the notches back in & good as new, visually there's a hairline crack, but mechanically it's good again for years of use to come :)
the fun thing about tangs breaking, just like with nicks, it's a very clean break so the parts fit back together nice & snug. :)
Bingo!!! Red is right. A guy who is good with a laser welder can fix that and never get it hot enough to hurt the temper (Never get it too hot to hold).
I have a friend who has pulled my bacon out of the fire a couple times on projects where things needed repaired on a gun or knife. When he was don you could never tell anything had been done. Yes a good laser welder can weld it all the way through.
Ray
+1 on the laser welder.
Those things are used to seal pacemakers.
The laser hits only the seam of the lid, which instantly melts, seals and sets.
All without so much as raising the temperature of the rest of the piece.
sadly though, I don't imagine laser welds to be cheap.. :/
nor very easy to locate :P
To be honest, the only reason I would be able to get it done if I really, really needed it is because I know a guy who writes software for interfacing with those lasers.
And he could do this after hours if I asked him.
If I had to find a commercial avenue for doing this (arguably custom and 1 off) it would likely be prohibitively expensive.
I recently fixed one with duct tape.
If you don't look really close, it blends right in and you can barely even tell it's there.
Here is a picture:
(note: my definition for "look really close" may vary from yours...)
Many fabricating jewelers have gone to laser welders. The who does mine is a jeweler. PM me and I will send you his contact info. I am sure he would quote it out for you. I don't know what you call expensive. IT would probably cost you over $20 but I doubt it would cost anywhere near $100. I don't know what its worth to you to get it fixed but if interested I can put the two of you together.
I don't see where your located but he is in the Chicago area. Its easy enough to ship a razor blade though.
oh, I figured it'd go in the hundreds range :P Might be time to go find me a jewelers :P
Nice!!! You can barely see itQuote:
Originally Posted by HNSB
Here's a thread on one of my razors with a repaired tang, it's very much like the repair suggestion with drawings several posts back. My repair seems to be very old and has not effected the temper
http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...nge-razor.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodb
I saw that one, looked like a great fix to me!
this is what my fix currently looks like:
Attachment 88960
tested it thoroughly and I'm quite confident that this will hold up to daily use as-is =)
I'll probably still see if I can weld it up eventually though.. dunk the blade in oil with the tang sticking out & tack it or something..
but for now - this is fine :)
Another option you could try before welding, would be to drill two small holes in the broken ends, and then insert a steel pin into both pieces. As a bonding agent you could try glass bedding material used for bedding gun barrels in a gun stock. Its pretty darn durable and holds up to recoil. As for welding, get it laser welded or find a good welder in your area, they'd probably have to tig weld it and use a big heat sink to suck the heat out of the blade.
You could always go to the weldingweb forum and ask them what they think, The vast majority of guys on there are professionals and they will be honest and tell you if its doable without wrecking it further. A guy with the user name Zapster can tig weld in his sleep and he would be the guy to ask.
More than likely the break would have to be beveled and the weld bead would have to be done in the beveled area to get the penetration without hitting it with too much heat. I'm not an expert, but I thought I'd give you a way to get a free opinion from someone who is.
A competent tig weld will suffice as beveled and filled in, however any fix will reveil itself. Once you do this, you will not do it again. Blades will be junked and mistakes not repeated! Junk it. JMHO
I considered that, but the material was too hard to drill into, so all hope of correctly aligning it to drill the holes in the EXACT same coordinates on both pieces were pretty much nill in my case.Quote:
Originally Posted by twogun
it is possible to TIG weld it, but only if I speedtack the top & bottom, if I weld up the sides, i'll ruin the stamp completely.Quote:
Originally Posted by twogun
I have to speedtack them while clamped down too to avoid it crimping & pulling the gap open again after the first tack.. it's a bit better than normal tacks in that regard, but it WILL still move :<
You could always go to the weldingweb forum and ask them what they think, The vast majority of guys on there are professionals and they will be honest and tell you if its doable without wrecking it further. A guy with the user name Zapster can tig weld in his sleep and he would be the guy to ask.
it would indeed have to be beveled where I want to weld it (top & bottom of tang), reground, and then refiled..Quote:
Originally Posted by twogun
as for the heat part, big copper blocks clamped to it, with the blade itself submerged in oil should be plenty to keep the temper in the important bits.
the biggest issue with welding is that, nomatter how good you do it, if you grind & polish it, it will ALWAYS show :/
--
sidenote: sofar my plain loctite 435 is still holding perfectly well :P
A buddy of mine is a jeweler with over 30 years experience. His advice, get it laser welded if its something you really want to fix. Cost shouldn't be anymore than $50. You've just got to find someone willing to do it.
