My non-destructive method of unpinning

I remembered reading about somebody putting electrical tape around the pin as they were filing the pin down. I found what I feel is an easier and more efficient way to protect the scales. I took a piece of electrical tape and wrapped it tightly once over the pin. Then I take the file and start to file the pin through the electrical tape. You end up with something like this:
Attachment 73616

Of course in this instance I picked the side that did not have the washer on it... tricksy razor makers! I have started unpinning a handful of razors like this, and have yet to wear through the electrical tape and damage a set of scales. And for what is going in these scales:
Attachment 73617
A W&B Bow that I picked up on the cheap. Fits very nicely.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/images/misc/pencil.png

Another option is to make a guard out of some thin brass sheet by drilling various sized holes in it as needed. No mess, and reusable.

I like flushcut wire cutters the best. I will have to try this though.

That is a neat trick, Thank you! ' Never thought of using it for pin removal!

My favorite is a double sided adhesive tape with a very hard paper liner that is pulled off later to use the other adhesive side of the tape. That treated paper will even survive buffing. Some carpet tapes have the same liner paper. But either the cloth or vinyl but not the fiberglass stuff.

I prefer not to use the flushcut on any scales I wish to save because it does pull up a bit and has cracked some scales for me; fortunately already broken ones.

Respectfully
~Richard

If you use a Drenel tool and very small ball-shaped burr on the pin's head itself, you may even be able tro save the washer.

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Originally Posted by Caledonian

If you use a Drenel tool and very small ball-shaped burr on the pin's head itself, you may even be able tro save the washer.

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A drill press works well to save washers as well...but most of the time I use the dremel or flush cut pliers.

this is good, instead of trying to get the tape arond the pin just stick it straight over and file thru the tape. great idea!

Super, I'll try this on my floppy bladed Stead. Thanks:)

As an addendum, I would like to mention that you do need to pay attention to the marks that are being put on the electrical tape by the file. I have come close to burning through the tape once or twice, but you can actually tell how deep you've gone just by looking at the tape. It's just another thing to be cognizant about.

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Originally Posted by Caledonian

If you use a Drenel tool and very small ball-shaped burr on the pin's head itself, you may even be able tro save the washer.

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Has anyone tried putting the ball shape burr from a Dremel into a drill press?
It might give you more control over the tool therefore less chance of damaging the washer and scales.
FWIW
Cheers,
Geoff

Great tip for protecting the scale when filing off the pin! Thank you.

Related question: any tips on how to protect the razor/scales when tapping out the pin AFTER the head has been filed off? I've experimented placing the razor over my open vice with a protective cloth underneath the razor to prevent scratches, but it moves around too much. How do you guys secure the razor for this procedure?

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Originally Posted by diyguy

Great tip for protecting the scale when filing off the pin! Thank you.

Related question: any tips on how to protect the razor/scales when tapping out the pin AFTER the head has been filed off? I've experimented placing the razor over my open vice with a protective cloth underneath the razor to prevent scratches, but it moves around too much. How do you guys secure the razor for this procedure?

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You could embed it in a block of child's modeling clay, known in the UK and probably some other places as plasticene, the kind which isn't gritty and never hardens. If the pin is properly liberated at its top end, it will drive out easily into the clay.

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Originally Posted by Havachat45

Has anyone tried putting the ball shape burr from a Dremel into a drill press?
It might give you more control over the tool therefore less chance of damaging the washer and scales.
FWIW
Cheers,
Geoff

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Anything ball-shaped is going to be pretty bad at holding to the centre of the pin. It would be just the same with a ball-nose end-mill, which is otherwise very similar to a twist drill. I think you would be better to use the Dremel, and a lens if you need one, to make sure that the edge of the tiny ball makes its first depression in the centre of the pin.

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

Another option is to make a guard out of some thin brass sheet by drilling various sized holes in it as needed. No mess, and reusable.

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True, but then you'd have the issue of making sure it stays in the same place, and it would probably be thicker than tape.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by diyguy

Related question: any tips on how to protect the razor/scales when tapping out the pin AFTER the head has been filed off? I've experimented placing the razor over my open vice with a protective cloth underneath the razor to prevent scratches, but it moves around too much. How do you guys secure the razor for this procedure?

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First, there are always going to be scales that no matter how careful you are, they're going to crack. Here's how I do it. After having gotten one of the washers off, I leave the tape on and file a hole in the tape on the other side to allow the pin to come out. I don't know what the best support to use is, but I use a near-used up roll of electrical tape. I've got a 16(?) penny finishing nail that I filed to conical/sharper point as a drift. I like to use something pointy because it can form a divot in the brass pin, which gives a little bit of support for the drift to stay where it should. Then with something relatively light, such as a pair of diagonal cutters, I tap out the pin.

One good way to break scales is to try to drift out a pin that still has a little bit of upsetting on the end (mushroomed slightly). Make sure the rivet head is as gone as possible.

Thanks for the tip, I sure will try this next time.

Definitely a good idea to protect the scales. Better to scuff the tape instead of finding out you accidentally scuffed the scales. I think I would be to nervous to do a proper job without some sort of protection

THat is a good idea...I know i have screwed up a bunch of scales drilling...The bit always slips.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by diyguy

Great tip for protecting the scale when filing off the pin! Thank you.

Related question: any tips on how to protect the razor/scales when tapping out the pin AFTER the head has been filed off? I've experimented placing the razor over my open vice with a protective cloth underneath the razor to prevent scratches, but it moves around too much. How do you guys secure the razor for this procedure?

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I have a piece of railroad iron that I drilled a hole in to drift the pin into. Something better would be a piece of soft pine wood as it wouldn't scratch anything. I typically start the pins out to where I can grab them with pliers or something so I can twist and work the pin out slowly...any force at all will break some bakelite scales...I haven't broken a set in a while, but expect it to happen once and a while. That's just the way the cookie crumbles.

Ok, Guys,
Here is another method which can sometimes save a set of scales when unpinning.
As above, remove one pin head riveting bulge.
1.grip and slowly pull a bit of slack with the other end of the pin.
2.When you have a few thousandths of space between the blade and scales.
3 push the blade against the pulled pin side to make slack space next to the blade.
4.use a jewelers piercing saw frame and a 00 or finer blade and saw through the pin next to the blade.
5.Then you can sometimes push the pin ends out from the inside. You may have to file the inside pin ends to get rid of some expansion before they will go all the way through! I did that about forty times in the last day or so. I finally cleaned out my to-do box
Be slow and safe. If I am in a hurry and don't listen to my inner warning soon enough..SNAP.
And, I did lose four scales.
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...humbnail-1.jpg
They are really cheap and worth a lot in time saved and tricks learned!
A bench pin surely helps also!
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z.../Finally-1.jpg
Respectfully
~Richard

Geezer: How is that "bench pin" used? Is it something that's supported underneath, or is it what it looks like: a piece of wood with a slot/hole in it? Thanks -Andrew

Good question!
The pin has a cast iron clamp which clamps the wooden pin to the bench top. The wood is a sacrificial piece which is cut and shaped to deal with the normal work that is done on the bench. That pin has a tenon which goes under the anvil clamp and the bottom of the wood is tapered from the edge of the anvil/clamp upward to the front of the pin. There are other pins and holders which only attach to the front of a bench. I may drill a hole in the anvil portion of mine to allow a punched out pin to fall through the iron clamp. I have some jewelry experience and I like a very thin "V" slot to support small work while sawing. I often use the taper of the wooden pin to pry apart scales also. It makes a good work or hand rest while working on a blade also.
A generic side view photo:
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z.../benchpin2.jpg
Evil;bay has quite a few listed of the various types.
Respectfully
~Richard

Geezer, that's a very nice little tool! I can see where the slot would be very handy for supporting fine cutting. Thanks for the explanation!

Jewellers' benches often have a semicircular cutout (as was probably falsely rumoured to be the case in the London Guildhall, where the aldermen were in the habit of dining extremely well), with a mortice in the middle to insert the bench pin. For using a metal piercing saw (a sort of fretsaw) on thin sheet, it is usually placed the other way up, so that the saw acts at a slight angle to the sheet. But if used purely for driving out pins, a flat piece of wood on the bench is just as good.

What's the best non-destructive method for removing washerless pins?

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Originally Posted by diyguy

What's the best non-destructive method for removing washerless pins?

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Many of those pins were set into a tapered hole. That means that the pin may be bulged out all the way to the washer next to the blade
I have yet to find a perfect method of removing them. I believe the only sure method would be to use a milling machine and a tiny end mill..not a drill bit. I have used the saw to cut through the blade at the pivot to save a pair of nice scales from a bad blade. I don't recommend it for any other way of saving high buck scales. The celluloid scales with the washerless pin were machine pressed into a ball at each end and sink deeply into the celluloid.

If a person were to set the scales into a plasticene modeling clay or a reusable reheat type urethane clay/ stable fix like the engravers use to fix the razor onto a board to use a drill press, it may be possible to use a center drill. It is necessary to have the axis of the pin exactly at the same axis as that of of the drill bit. If you do not make a center punch in the center of a pin a drill bit will often wander or cut out to the side of the pin. The center drills pictured do not wander but the chuck must be a good one:
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...nterdrills.jpg
Most small drill presses have a very poor chuck and the drill does not run concentric to the axis of rotation. So, with very brittle natural scales the drill may vibrate and break the scales. Don't ask!!

A dental burr will not cut straight ahead as would a drill bit. It must be used sideways to cut properly, and it will generate a good bit of heat.
I have used a dental burr in a high speed very small air powered handpiece from Harbor Freight. Steady hand and very little pressure sometimes works. PS, that little beasty takes a 2HP air compressor running steady!!! The much higher cost ones do a much better job of low air usage.
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z.../HFgrinder.jpg
As mentioned back a ways, a Dremel with a little ball burr can also work.
So, as with so many things, I have aded to my bag of tricks as time passed and hope to add more possibilities as time passes. This is a valuable thread and I appreciate all who have posted here!
Thanks everybody!
Respectfully
~Richard