Method for blade sanding with a drill press

I'm new to restoration, actually new to everything, but after four hours sanding a blade by hand and no reduction in the pitting I knew I wouldn't want to hand-sand my rapidly growing collection. I skipped the dremel entirely and found something that works surprisingly well, or at least I think so; so I thought I'd share.

**Disclaimer: This isn't a "How-To" or a recommendation, I'm just sharing. There's nothing very safe about the way I'm doing this. When sanding near the spine it tends to grab and push the blade in my hands. However, it doesn't fling it anywhere. The worst that's happened is the blade falling onto the table and I can usually keep hold of it anyway. But doing this with anything other than a totally dull razor is insane, and gloves would probably make it MORE dangerous with hands wrapped around a high-torque spindle.

Attachment 75044
I chucked a piece of wooden dowel (~5/16 actual diameter) in my drill press, slipped a flanged bicycle axle nut in the center hole of the table to support the bottom end of the dowel, wrapped a layer of bike packing foam around the dowel with electrical tape to hold it and stuck some sandpaper to it. Resulting 'drum' is about 3/4" wide and 3" long. Perfect for doing the face of a hollow blade.

The 'drum' has enough friction on the dowel to sand a blade but you can slide it up or down so that you can do both sides of the blade with the drum rotating away from the edge (see photos below). I hold the tang with one hand and control the pressure with the fingers of the other hand resting in the hollows of the blade.

Attachment 75045Attachment 75046

I've finished two blades this way from 220 grit to 2000. Ran the first one at 750 RPM and the second at 1500 RPM. Just finished de-pitting my third blade, too. I dip the blades in water every 10 seconds or less and the blade never even seems to feel hot unless I use a lot of pressure, which usually makes the drum slip anyway. It's really nice compared to a dremel because the speed is low and stays constant

The drum can do the whole face of the blade evenly, and the drum end can get into the shoulder, too. Works great everywhere on the tang, too, and for cleaning up the face at the tip of the blade. The only bit it can't reach is the corner between the blade shoulder and the bottom of the tang, I do that and the top of the spine by hand.

Getting the flaws out of the blade takes a while, but nothing compared to hand-sanding, and once I've got a clean 220 grit finish I go to 400, then 800, then 1000, then 2000, putting deep transverse scratches in by hand to mark each transition. The high grits really take no time at all, and each stage uses up two or three 3x3 inch pieces of sandpaper. I've never gotten as far by hand, but IMHO this method puts a pretty nice brushed finish on the blade at the lower grits. My favourite look is at 800 but here's the Adrian & Stock I'm working on right now after 220 grit de-pitting with literally no attention paid to detail. Both times I went through the grits I was sorely tempted to just stop at 400, then again at 800. The finish seems to come out a lot less even above 1000 grit, though.

*Note: that's just dust at the edge, not chipping. Went real easy near the edge for this one. Learned my lesson.
Attachment 75047

So far I've had two real problems with this method.

1. When working near the spine it tends to grab the sandpaper and shift the blade in your hands. Doesn't throw the blade anywhere like buffers allegedly do, but definitely hazardous to your fingers.

2. Because it's a power tool, need to be very careful if working near the edge. My guinea-pig first blade (full hollow) turned out great, but I approached the second (quarter-hollow) with a bit too much confidence and the toe third of the edge crumbled during the 220 grits stage, and the heel third followed suit during the 400. My notch-point (disguising a chip in the toe) became a spanish-point.

I have a tendency to hack things together with hot glue and duct tape, this is a (very) rare case of it actually working pretty damn well ,I think.

Could the spine grabbing part be due to too much pressure when sanding? It can happen easy when using a buffer too.

I am not sure I will reproduce your idea 100% but I have a few idea's using your root design. Thanks for the idea. I think I can make a smaller version like this but using small DC motors designed more like a lathe. perhaps even some safety guards. The wheels are spinning in my head.

Thanks.......now I will be loosing sleep because of you.. :)

Somewhere in the deepest darkest pits of SRP is a thread about using these

12 Piece Long Drum Sander Kit and Replacement Sleeves - Rockler Woodworking Tools

Combined with a simple variable speed/reversible drill in a stand, for those of you that don't own a drill press... This system does work and it works really well for removing pits on 1/2 hollows and heavier, be very careful on hollows and full hollows they are pretty thin :)

I love reading about work arounds for expensive power tools, great idea Goggles :tu

nice improv ... kudos!!

How about using a mini lathe instead of a drill press. Mine is variable speed, and you would be holding the blade horizontal instead of vertical. Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by skipnord

How about using a mini lathe instead of a drill press. Mine is variable speed, and you would be holding the blade horizontal instead of vertical. Just a thought.

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I remember Dan aka Floppyshoes used a lathe for most everything so I see no reason it wouldn't work

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Originally Posted by mainaman

Could the spine grabbing part be due to too much pressure when sanding? It can happen easy when using a buffer too.

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Yeah, it usually happens when I press harder, but the main reason is that I haven't perfected a way to attach the sandpaper, so it's always a bit lumpy.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Somewhere in the deepest darkest pits of SRP is a thread about using these

12 Piece Long Drum Sander Kit and Replacement Sleeves - Rockler Woodworking Tools

Combined with a simple variable speed/reversible drill in a stand, for those of you that don't own a drill press... This system does work and it works really well for removing pits on 1/2 hollows and heavier, be very careful on hollows and full hollows they are pretty thin :)

I love reading about work arounds for expensive power tools, great idea Goggles :tu

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Thanks for the compliment. I was definitely nervous on the first, full-hollow test blade, even though it was already damaged. Just like hand sanding I think it comes down to guessing how deep the pits are, since it still takes a while to work them out. Luckily there doesn't seem to be any issue with heat build-up because of the speed, unless you press really hard. The squishyness of the drum really helps to avoid too much harshness.

On other topics, I've also used the drill press in place of a lathe to make stainless steel washers (well, technically only 1 so far) out of a 3/16" piece of 18-8 rod I had lying around. I pulled the chuck off my cheap hand drill to hold a bit for center-drilling, and used a cut-off wheel in the dremel to part them off. The accuracy with which you can turn things using a cut-off wheel by hand is surprising. Not great, just surprising.

Oh, and I've also got a way of keeping blades from bumping into each other in a tumbler that seems to be working brilliantly so far, even though it was just a pocket knife & cardboard solution. Think I'll share that in another thread.

I am going to speak out against the practice mentioned in the first post (sorry, I'm a former Health & Safety officer).

The practice you are employing is placing side forces on the chuck and motor housing of the drill as you move the blade under the drill - side forces that the drill was not designed to take (there WILL be forces, as you have to apply a pressure to do the sanding)

There is also the question of what happens if the long shaft you are employing snaps - there you will have a length of broken metal flying off in whatever direction at a hell of a speed.

Why not splash out $20 or so for a flexi drive shaft and attach that to your drill - it will reduce the side forces on the chuck/motor, and allow a hell of a lot more manouvereability.

Oh, I take it that you have the blade firmly clamped in some sort of jig too, and not just sitting on the baseplate of the drill press?? (Just knocked up a jig at home for less than £2, and that cost was for the magnets!!)


I've seen too many bad accidents caused by people thinking they can adapt power tools for purposes that they were not originally designed for, where there is a perfectly good alternative available for less than the cost of a stay in hospital!!!


Please, heed this warning

Mark

@wmsheep, get over your bad self, it's our fingers we will lose them if....... Oh wait. Perhaps your right :)

Truthfully I liked the op's design but safety was the first thing I thought of and planned to build something safer and horizontal.

Thanks for the heed of warning..

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Originally Posted by WMSheep

....SNIP...
Please, heed this warning
Mark

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I'm a little confused. I definitely think there are safety issues with what I posted (see my disclaimer at the top), but not the ones you've mentioned. I think you might be misinterpreting the setup.

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Originally Posted by WMSheep

The practice you are employing is placing side forces on the chuck

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That's true, but mitigated somewhat because the shaft is supported at the bottom where it runs through the hole in the drill table, so there's no real torque being put on the bearings. There IS a straight sideways force, but a hell of a lot less than the thickness-sander conversions (for scale-making) I saw elsewhere. Also the sanding seems to work best with minimal pressure. I could fix it entirely by raising the table to maximum height (providing support at the top of the shaft just below the chuck) and supporting the shaft bottom at the drill base.

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Originally Posted by WMSheep

There is also the question of what happens if the long shaft you are employing snaps - there you will have a length of broken metal flying off in whatever direction at a hell of a speed.

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Do you mean the shaft itself? The shaft is wooden. The only metal in this setup is the blade itself but I can't really picture a way the shaft could break that would throw the blade. Even if the shaft broke, one half would still be in the chuck and the other half running through the table.

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Originally Posted by WMSheep

Oh, I take it that you have the blade firmly clamped in some sort of jig too, and not just sitting on the baseplate of the drill press?? (Just knocked up a jig at home for less than £2, and that cost was for the magnets!!)

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I'm not sure what you mean here. The blade never touches the baseplate or any part of the drill. I hold the blade by hand against the sandpaper drum which is spinning in the drill. That's actually the dangerous part, IMO, because my fingers are so close to the spindle and holding the blade. I've had the blade lurch in my grip LOTS of times so far without any damage, but from a safety point of view cuts are inevitable and protective gloves are out of the question so close to the spindle.

I made a magnetic jig, too, for using with a dremel, but I found five seconds with the dremel more worrying than 5 hours with the drill press rig. I may try using that jig to hold the blade against the drum to get my fingers out of harm's way, but I'll probably add another magnet, first, for extra holding strength.

Thanks for your criticism, although it's not just a case of being too cheap to buy a flex-shaft because that's not how the setup works. If anything it's more like avoiding a buffer/grinder.

Aah, I see the setup now.

Sorry, I misinterpreted the way things were running a little.

Think the only thing I would really add is the use of safety guards & gloves.

Mark

Once again, Many apologies

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Originally Posted by WMSheep

Aah, I see the setup now.

Sorry, I misinterpreted the way things were running a little.

Think the only thing I would really add is the use of safety guards & gloves.

Mark

Once again, Many apologies

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gloves will get you hurt..... i use this same method from time to time..... gloves will snag and pull your hand into the machine....... it really isn't as dangerous as most people think it would be..... the dowel really isn't spinning that fast....... and by him using wooden dowel the odds are if it did snag him it would break the dowel before injuring him.....

is it the safest way to do it?? NO...

is it dangerous?? a bit...

is it extremely dangerous?? also no.....

The Darwin Awards honor Charles Darwin who observed that each generation descends from those who survive. We commemorate those who give natural selection a hand by removing themselves from the gene pool. Our heroes sacrifice their very lives, thereby self-evidently improving survival chances of the children of the future. After all, evolution is for the children, is it not?

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Originally Posted by dogface

The Darwin Awards honor Charles Darwin who observed that each generation descends from those who survive. We commemorate those who give natural selection a hand by removing themselves from the gene pool. Our heroes sacrifice their very lives, thereby self-evidently improving survival chances of the children of the future. After all, evolution is for the children, is it not?

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hmmm.... what is YOUR occupation???

i mean to ask your area of expertise......

i mean to ask because i work as a maintenance mechanic for a major airline.... i started welding and metal fabrication 30 years ago working for my father in his metal fab shop.....

i have used lathes and milling machines and drill presses since the age of 13...

i say that because i doubt your work experience around moving machinery..... there are often times while doing machining where the machinists hands comes in contact with whatever they are working on while it still spins in the lathe.... *(and a lathe is MUCH less forgiving than a drill press..) sometimes even applying emory cloth to the material being turned.....

wood lathes spin at a fairly high rate of speed and you will see the operator sometimes apply stain with a rag to the wood being turned as it is turning.....

the setup he has with the drill press is a handy little setup... and i am sure he will use it for years without problems or incident because he is smart enough to pay attention to what is going on.....

your darwin award comment makes me think that your opinion is that we are idiots or somehow incompetent or just plain stupid when in fact some of us are highly skilled in our jobs...

*(not saying we are fool proof because we are not... accidents still happen and craftsmen with many years experience still do stupid things with out thinking....)

i find your post offensive and think you should apologize....

It's actually calmed down a bit (smoother) since I changed the way I attached the trailing end of the sandpaper, and a bit more when I shifted up a gear to 2000 RPM. I also started using less pressure.

The drum is practically harmless. I can grab it with two fingers while it's spinning to slide it up or down the shaft.I usually drag my wet fingertip on the spinning drum to clean & wet the paper. Definitely not worried about safety from that angle.

why? holding a straight razor by hand against a spinning drill press with a wood rod and jury rigged attachment of sand paper. why do I think if anyone in any kind of machine shop business would allow this the would be crazy.
I've had the blade lurch in my grip LOTS of times so far without any damage, but from a safety point of view cuts are inevitable and protective gloves are out of the question so close to the spindle.

they even know it's just a matter of time.

using the same type of setup for almost anything else wouldn't be a big deal but you are talking a straight razor. I hope there is no one else in the same room. I also hope he's wearing a heavy leather apron and a full face shield.

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Originally Posted by paco664

hmmm.... what is YOUR occupation???

i mean to ask your area of expertise......

i mean to ask because i work as a maintenance mechanic for a major airline.... i started welding and metal fabrication 30 years ago working for my father in his metal fab shop.....

i have used lathes and milling machines and drill presses since the age of 13...

i say that because i doubt your work experience around moving machinery..... there are often times while doing machining where the machinists hands comes in contact with whatever they are working on while it still spins in the lathe.... *(and a lathe is MUCH less forgiving than a drill press..) sometimes even applying emory cloth to the material being turned.....

wood lathes spin at a fairly high rate of speed and you will see the operator sometimes apply stain with a rag to the wood being turned as it is turning.....

the setup he has with the drill press is a handy little setup... and i am sure he will use it for years without problems or incident because he is smart enough to pay attention to what is going on.....

your darwin award comment makes me think that your opinion is that we are idiots or somehow incompetent or just plain stupid when in fact some of us are highly skilled in our jobs...

*(not saying we are fool proof because we are not... accidents still happen and craftsmen with many years experience still do stupid things with out thinking....)

i find your post offensive and think you should apologize....

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Originally Posted by dogface

why? holding a straight razor by hand against a spinning drill press with a wood rod and jury rigged attachment of sand paper. why do I think if anyone in any kind of machine shop business would allow this the would be crazy.
I've had the blade lurch in my grip LOTS of times so far without any damage, but from a safety point of view cuts are inevitable and protective gloves are out of the question so close to the spindle.

they even know it's just a matter of time.

using the same type of setup for almost anything else wouldn't be a big deal but you are talking a straight razor. I hope there is no one else in the same room. I also hope he's wearing a heavy leather apron and a full face shield.

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did you even read his first post where he clearly said he only does this on totally dull razors...

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But doing this with anything other than a totally dull razor is insane, and gloves would probably make it MORE dangerous with hands wrapped around a high-torque spindle.

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Hmmmm Gents, we need to ease up here...

Goggles gave more then enough safety warnings in this thread...

Simple facts are, taking pieces of sharp steel, and combining them with spinning machines is not that safe at all.. PERIOD

Please read the entire thread, before you decide to post
Please understand that Restoring razors is Dangerous.
Heck shaving with them ain't all that safe...

But do not make this thread into anything personal...

TIA

I'd agree that this is not the safest of setups, but using it is not the mark of Cain set upon anybody's forehead. There are some ways I think it could be improved.

The vertical drum isn't the most natural of positions in use. A lathe would be easier, but you need a paper or sheet-metal guard to keep sanding grit from the bed and saddle, where it will cause abrasion.

Wood-turners do indeed apply stain, wax or polish to spinning objects. They take great care that the pad used has no projections that can grab, and for this purpose an edge is a projection. I would expect that pad to go flying at least once in a lifetime, and nobody remembers. But with a straight razor (and razor-dull is unlikely to be dull for other purposes) you are playing in the big league.

Side loading on a bench drill is not advisable, and yet people do it with greater loads than this, and all that happens is that they may, after a long time, noticed progressive looseness of the bearing. I can't see any reason why the spindle needs to be wood, or of a diameter as small as 5/16in. A four-bolt flange beaaring, with a sealed ball race,could be bolted to the four slots in the drill table.

i' m not a monster...

http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/r...64/imagkes.jpg

Thing is,
Wear goggles. They're safer than not wearing them.
Wear sturdy clothes / apron / whatever. That's safer than without.
Wear ear protectors or earplugs. That's better than without.

But with gloves, the answer is less clear.
gloves protect your hands for example if you are using a belt sander. But with a drill presses or buffer wheels, the might be grabbed by the equipment and that would be very bad. They also generally provide less grip than bare hands and might hinder blade control, leading to increased risk.

Quick update: Yesterday I had safety training at work to get access to the construction site where the new plant is being built.
Among all the other things, I was told that it is forbidden to wear gloves while using stationary rotary power tools. there are official regulations regarding this in the health and safety code. The reason is that gloves can be caught and rip your hand off. For non stationary tools like angle grinders this does not apply because you hold them in your hands, and your hands are in a safe zone.