Restoring a blade while preserving etching

Hey all,
Just received my first razor to restore, its an "Original Dagger" from Joseph Allen & Sons. The blade has an etching that currently is in great shape and it will add a lot of character once the blade is restored. That being said, I am afraid sandpaper will significantly damage the etching. I have seen another razor, with the same etchings that was restored, and it was significantly damaged by some abrasive cleaning- I assume sandpaper.

My question is if there is a way to clean the blade of rust and patina with out sand paper. Perhaps a chemical of some sort? I have heard WD-40 might help? Does anyone have any suggestions? Or should I wetsand with very high grit and accept that it will take longer?

Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

Take Care,
John

I have sanded down one too many etchings. Post up some pics for reference. I believe some have had luck with a vibratory tumbler..just got one,but have yet to try it. :(

As long as it isn't gold wash or a frosted etching, metal polish and #0000 steel wool should be just fine.

every etching I have ever done was not liking even MAAS. pics would help give us an idea but right now it's all guess work.

What theseus said or send it to someone who has a tumbler...that's about all you can do & keep the etchings.

Thanks for the advice. I'll post some pics when I get home from school. Maybe I'll pick up some metal polish on the way home to.

Maas & Flitz are what I prefer to work with, but most any metal or chrome polish will work fine. I like to use thick paper towels like the blue "shop towel" available at the auto part stores. Just watch that edge...

Thanks shooter- and that's enough to eat through some rust and darkening of the blade?

You should know that to give you a good hypothesis we need pictures. Your & my idea of a little rust, tarnish, darkening may vary a bit.

Rust is always questionable, you never know how deep it is. You simply can't hurt the razor by polishing it by hand with a known quality metal polish. This is the least aggressive approach. Then, if you don't get all the rust & darkening off the blade, you can take steel wool to it with either wd-40 or metal polish, then metal polish by hand, and see how it goes. Toothpicks, dental floss, and cotton swabs are great around the pivot point. Sometimes we simply have to admit we have an old razor that may never look new & shiny, the most important thing is how it shaves. I personally like the nostalgia of shaving with an old and imperfect razor, reminds me of...me.

Your right, I should have known better. Here are some pics. Attachment 87914Attachment 87915Attachment 87916

That etch looks fairly deep. You should get away with a light hand sand with some high grit wet and dry. Then a polish with some Maas or Mothers. JMHO.

Stu

For me if it were mine I would start with the least abrasive method. Mothers or MAAS. Should work great especially if you un pin it. If you start with something more aggressive you have a higher chance of losing the etch. Whenever I start a restore I'll use either black compound on a wheel or Maas. Plus if you un pin you can soak the scales in neetsfoot oil.

The thing most new restorers miss is what's happening at the bevel & immediately above it. Will you need to hone completely past the current bevel ? Will the steel above it support a new bevel.? Will the stabiliser become an issue if a lot of edge steel has to go ? It's advisable to at least try setting a bevel before any restoration or you may end up with a shiny letter opener. A magnified view of things really helps too.

On this one it looks like there is rust in the bevel & a potential for the stabiliser to get in the way if that rust is deep enough to need a lot of honing.

Guys, thanks for all your input. I have some flitz polish, heavy duty paper towels, and high grit wet sandpaper. I'm going to so slowly.
I thought about unpinning the razor, no doubt it would be easier, but I haven't yet acquired materials to repin the razor.

Thanks again!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jwbharper

Guys, thanks for all your input. I have some flitz polish, heavy duty paper towels, and high grit wet sandpaper. I'm going to so slowly.
I thought about unpinning the razor, no doubt it would be easier, but I haven't yet acquired materials to repin the razor.

Thanks again!

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See how things go and if you run into problems and are in the states I'd be willing to take a look at it for ya. unpin, clean it up and repin. It's fun doing your own stuff though so remember to have fun.
+1 to what ONI said.
Paul

These are some pictures after the first evening on cleaning the blade. Again, I started with metal polish and then used some wet sandpaper with polish. However, I didn't use sand paper over the etching. The upper part of the etching seems to have faded a bit but perhaps it was always that way. I need another couple evenings to clean this up some more but I don't think I want to get it to a mirror finish. Retaining some of the evidence of its age I think will add to its character...at least in my eyes.
I am curious about the etching on the tang. It says Joseph Allen & Sons/Sheffield. But on the top row it appears to says "ON [dot] XLL". XLL is 90 in roman numerals but "ON" are not roman numerals. Still researching what this line means.
Shooter- thanks for the offer to take a look at my razor.

Attachment 87996Attachment 87997Attachment 87998Attachment 87999Attachment 88000

In my experience, if the "patina" (i call it all pitting) is below the level of the etch you wont have an etch after resurfacing.
You get a calm mirror finish on a completely levelled resurface and a wavy on a "scooped" one, not much you can do... sanding off "King Cutter" would be devastating... but ....maybe it was never there .... hahah!

ON.XLL? I think an 'N' has worn off at the beginning NON.XLL meaning 'none excel'

I will be honest with you, that razro will never look new. Just clean it up to where you like it and either hone or have it honed. It's an old razor, let it be old & give you an experienced shave....

A True-isum of razor restoration...

"The deepest pitting will inevitably be deeper than the etching/stamping.. The more valuable the etching and stamping is to the overall value of the razor, the deeper the pitting will be...

Get over it and shave :p

I agree with you all that the razor will never look new. Nor do I want it to. I like the nostalgic look. It's mind blowing to try and imagine all the places the razor has been in its 100 plus years of existence.
As for the suggestion that there was an "N" worn away over time so that the etching on the tang read "Non XLL" read as "non excell" is intriguing. Perhaps the blade makers philosophy is showing through....I like the idea of that!

there you go
Attachment 88047

Thanks for the great picture! I googled "Non XLL" and its meaning and found a few references to this post on another cite. Perhaps everyone else has seen this but since I am new to razors and just discovered this and I thought I would copy and paste. Very fascinating history! How interesting to see personalities and competition and a little philosophy survive time. Thanks for the picture OSDSET!


NON*XLL means None Excel. It was the trademark of Joseph Allen, Sheffield.
He was a competition with Wostenholm who used I*XL as a trademark and
was a much larger operation selling more knives. If the knife does not have
England on it, it was likely made prior to 1891. If it has England than after
1891 until Allen went out of business in 1947. Most of his knives were of
the smaller bowie style hunters since he didn't start in business until 1886,
well after the hayday of the bowie knife.

Rich
joseph allen & sons