Thread: Preban ivory is my favorite material for scales

I have been working quietly since last August working with ivory,desert ironwood and G10.
I like all of those materials but ivory is my favorite:
I love how it comes alive with a classic glow, a few days afterwards the grains and familiar lines begin to form

I'm a little split on the ivory thing.
If I promote how nice it is on old razors where it's legal, people may want more of the stuff and thus killing elephants in the process.

I am a little split on that too but for old original razors I have no problem with ivory. The damage has already been done and it would be even more of a waste not to preserve the ivory. OTH I sure don't want to promote the illegal killing of Elephants or the sale of post ban ivory.

Bob

Just personally i reckon it's morally okay if you harvest the ivory yourself and ensure you utilise the whole animal with no waste...
Adam

Funny thing, I was waiting at the mechanics today and picked up a Nat. Geo mag. On the cover is a story about how the Ivory trade is picking up again. It went down after the ban but in the last few years the average is a staggering 53,000 elephants that die every year to illegal ivory poachers. I don't know for sure where the big demand is but I am guessing India and China. At -53k a year how long will there be wild elephants and then what's next ? I am not against using ivory or anybody that does. I will say after reading that article it lost it's appeal to me. I wanted to use some someday but I will pass on that and help keep the demand down. That's the best I can do for you and of course the elephants.

That's the problem with Ivory. There is no visual difference between pre- and post ban ivory. And as long as there is a demand, people will continue poaching elephants.

In general, I don't mind killing animals as long as the entire animal is used. But that is not what happens with poached ivory (or rhinoceros horn for that matter). The animal gets shot, the ivory removed, and then the carcass of the already endangered animal is let to rot.

But even if they'd eat the elephants, I still think it is wrong to hunt a species to extinction.

A while back, I saw a photo of a huge pile of confiscated ivory being burned. That made me sad. I'm sure that there is some reason for not doing it, but, why couldn't the government sell the ivory and use the proceeds to pay for taking care of the living elephants? Burning it, to me, seemed to be a final insult to the dead elephants. It didn't bring them back, it didn't send a message to any poachers, it just made an ugly fire. I don't know, it just seemed really messed up.

Originally Posted by donv

A while back, I saw a photo of a huge pile of confiscated ivory being burned. That made me sad. I'm sure that there is some reason for not doing it, but, why couldn't the government sell the ivory and use the proceeds to pay for taking care of the living elephants? Burning it, to me, seemed to be a final insult to the dead elephants. It didn't bring them back, it didn't send a message to any poachers, it just made an ugly fire. I don't know, it just seemed really messed up.

I think the rationale (or at least part of it) is that doing anything other than utterly destroying the ivory - i.e. releasing it somehow into the market - would serve to further encourage or embolden the trade, or simply play into the system that creates demand for the ivory which leads to poaching, and the whole cycle continues.

Any way you look at it though, it's a sad situation. Ivory is a beautiful material but the price is (for me) too high and I want nothing to do with it. But that's just me.

Originally Posted by Cangooner

I think the rationale (or at least part of it) is that doing anything other than utterly destroying the ivory - i.e. releasing it somehow into the market - would serve to further encourage or embolden the trade, or simply play into the system that creates demand for the ivory which leads to poaching, and the whole cycle continues.

That's exactly it.

Release it to market, and the very next thing, you'll just have the poachers bribe a couple of officials who 'confiscate' poached ivory. The poachers get their cut via a shady company for consulting services, the officals get their bribes, the customers get their ivory, and the elephants just get the shaft.

Seriously. Destroying it is the only good solution.

I am not so sure about the benefits of burning confiscated ivory. After all how long have they been doing that in the drug war WRT drugs and how successful has that been? Reducing the supply of anything just serves to increase it's value regardless if it is legal to have or not, further increasing the incentive to poach.

I think a better approach would be to try and eliminate the poverty that makes the poachers see their profession as a viable and in a lot of cases only way to make a decent living. At the other end, to also change the long historical use of ivory in certain cultures. Both of those are extremely difficult to do and there seems to be an almost complete lack of will to even try.

Burning poached ivory is a zero sum game and a band aid solution ay best. It is hard to come up with a workable plan to manage a renewable natural resource when so much money is involved and demand so high.

Bob