Thread: Why does the Pyramid method works???

Originally Posted by bluesman7

As an experiment I plan on seeing if I can reach a higher refinement by going 800> 3k>8k>3k>8k instead of just a normal progression of 800> 3k>8k. I don't plan on a specific lap count but will be using magnification.

Yeah let me know how that goes. I don't have much when it comes to magnification other than a 20x loupe unless I take the time to bring my razor to work to use the lab microscope (a real 400x), which would be terribly inefficient unless I can convince my boss to let me take it home temporarily. But I would say that the end refinement might be a little better if what we are thinking is true that the pyramid creates more of a gradual step to the final stone rather than the progression method. Because what I'm thinking is that the pyramid takes out most of the guess work of knowing when to stop lapping, unlike on the progression method where you learn by experience and/or observing the edge to know when to stop.

Or the pyramid at least makes it harder to overkill (overhone) the edge, if the inexperienced honer doesn't know when too many laps is too many and causes the edge to break off because they have honed it too thin. I'm thinking this because say you do 25 to 30 laps on a 8K and all that was needed was 15 or 20 that edge can be easily broken off and dull the edge, but if you are going back and forth from courser to finer during your pyramid method progression, you might be keeping that super fine "micro-burr" at bay. Or as in hunting, its easier to sneak up on a deer to make a shot rather than running up on it, stopping and making the shot. In the former you have more time to aim and place your shot because you haven't spooked the deer, while the latter is either hit or miss.

Now when I say this, I am taking into consideration Lynn's philosophy of less laps is more. Because its just common sense that if you do 150 laps (or whatever is too much), that too much is too much no matter what method you use. I'm just saying that an explanation for the pyramid being great for beginners is that by going back to the courser grit causes the dreaded overhoned edge more at bay more so than the progression method does. Because though the progression method will get you a nice fine edge in less strokes, the pyramid will get you there also but is also a lot more forgiving to the honer.

As another analogy, which is easier to wreck a car? Teaching a student driver how to drive by placing them on the Grand Prix at 100mph or on a gentle curvy back road going 15 mph. One is much more forgiving than the other.

What are y'alls (can you tell I'm from the South) thoughts on the matter?

i hope i'm not getting too much of the topic, but i'm still trying to understand how it's possible to overhone in the first place. as a noob honer i use the pyramid method (so far i have about a 70% success rate) but would it make sense that different hardness"s of steal require a different "size" of pyramid?

Here is an old thread, state of the art before a lot of the stones we enjoy today became available. Something like 80 replies to this old thread, how it was viewed 8 years ago

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...y-pyramid.html

Dang Jimmy, you devil. You sure know how to throw a cat into a dog kennel

Originally Posted by rlmnshvstr8

Dang Jimmy, you devil. You sure know how to throw a cat into a dog kennel

........ ......... that was a good one ! Just more food for thought in that thread. What the "old timers" thought about it way back when.


I thought Y'all would like that ........

Just because it works, besides, if it ain't broken don't fix it. Also it keeps a person from overhoning, and let's you sneak up on the edge.

Originally Posted by Smyth

Just because it works, besides, if it ain't broken don't fix it. Also it keeps a person from overhoning, and let's you sneak up on the edge.

Over-honing is too much pressure… not too many laps.

A Pyramid only works, if the honer uses less pressure the second time he goes to the lower grit.

We do this all the time sanding and buffing. You move to a higher grit and then see deep low grit scratches, so you go back and buff/sand them out. But if you stay too long on the low grit or use too much PRESSURE you just created more deep scratches, if you just stay on the high grit you use more pressure or stay too long on the wheel and burn the edge.

It is a pacifier for a novice honer, speeding up the process so they don’t get bored and resort to pressure.

Once you learn how and when to use pressure, you do not need a pyramid.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Over-honing is too much pressure… not too many laps.

A Pyramid only works, if the honer uses less pressure the second time he goes to the lower grit.

We do this all the time sanding and buffing. You move to a higher grit and then see deep low grit scratches, so you go back and buff/sand them out. But if you stay too long on the low grit or use too much PRESSURE you just created more deep scratches, if you just stay on the high grit you use more pressure or stay too long on the wheel and burn the edge.

It is a pacifier for a novice honer, speeding up the process so they don’t get bored and resort to pressure.

Once you learn how and when to use pressure, you do not need a pyramid.

True. However, the pyramid is an awesomely effective technique as it is learned long-term. If I may, the first few long steps of the pyramid tells of laps, grits, to come. As working through the pyramid and knowing when to adjust and how, seems no different to feeling how to progress through a progressive regimen. JMO

Back to the OP....I'm really curious WHY you want to know WHY it works. It reminds me of my wife asking why airplanes can fly. I can explain it in general terms, but I don't really care to because they do (airplanes, I'm still talking about), so WHY is she asking? Please understand, I'm not picking on you or your post, I'm a new honer myself, but I have more curiosity about people's thought processes than I am about WHY a proven mechanical process works.