Thread: Hone a straight edge or to a straight edge?

Originally Posted by bluesman7

I always interpreted it as side honing also.

Great.
Now there are two of us!

Im glad to have found this thread, I'm was planning on honing the razor I got at the shave meet now that I got a set of stones.

I do also strop on a Chrome Oxide Polyester canvas strop between low grit stones, 1, 4 & 8 and it does help to quickly straighten an edge, I strop with the tape on. But I feel it breaks off the edge, so, I started to Joint at the beginning of each new stone or if I see chipping.

Iwasaki also recommended this as well as hand stropping.

But what I am talking about here is at finish on the 12K. I often go to a natural stone post 12K.

Here is

a good video

of Alex Gilmore using the technique in his Ax Method video on an Asagi stone at about 620 on the video.

He also debates if it is side honing or edge down. Edge down makes most sense to me … and it works.

Thank You Alex

I agree that it works. I have no problem with that, but it clearly is not what Iwasaki described. Alex did one single back and forth stroke. I would be fine with the possibility that something was lost in the description's translation, but Iwasaki stated that the edge parallel stroke was to be done for 15 minutes. There is no possible way that the single back and forth stroke Alex did should be repeated for 15 minutes.

I realize I'm flogging this. I totally acknowledge that the jointing stroke has a benefit. Alex's video showed it. I just want a better understanding of Iwasaki's method and I think the jointing is not what is described in section 3 chapter 5. Though I think it would better be described as chapter 3, section 5!

Here is part 2... sorry

Part 2

Originally Posted by Utopian

Great.
Now there are two of us!

Well, just between the two of us. How much do you use side honing? I have been doing about a half dozen laps of what I would call a V stroke as the last step before stropping, but I've never done pure side honing strokes.

Originally Posted by bluesman7

Well, just between the two of us. How much do you use side honing? I have been doing about a half dozen laps of what I would call a V stroke as the last step before stropping, but I've never done pure side honing strokes.

Side Honing vs Extreme Heel forward


Is is simply a matter of degree here, you can slide the heel more forward and pull out many of the wonky uneven bevels especially of the older smiling Sheffield razors..

You might remember me showing this at the last Denver Meet..

This technique works as an arrow in the quiver for difficult bevels, this I know from using it for years

BUT

I do not know if it works for smoothing the edge on the final stage, I have never envisioned using it that way, and honestly I don't see how it would really work...
I would have to try it as described first on a Kamisori, and expand from there..



edit:

Another thought just occurred here perhaps this is a direct absolute way of shifting the stria, much like when sanding a blade during restoration you shift directions to take out the last grit's scratches

I know I like shifting the stroke pattern every 10 laps or so to keep things more even while honing..

No, I think he meant honing time, post Jointing, honing to the new edge not the actual jointing technique.
At least that, is how I interpret it.

Here is the Honing Time section.

The point he was trying to make is, as the grit progresses, pressure decreases and time on the stone increases.

And that is about right, what it takes to make the bevels meet the new edge on a high grit stone.

3-Honing Time
Many people think that when they hone on coarse abrasives, they should spend a lot of time, then
gradually reduce their honing time as they move to finer honing. However, in reality, the opposite is
true: they should be gradually increasing the time. When you hone with pressure on coarse
particles, you not only remove chips in the edge, but also wear away the steel of the spine and
blade. Honing time for both Kamisori and razors should be divided as follows:
(1) Coarse honing - Botan Nagura - 3-4 minutes
(2) Middle honing - Tenjou Nagura - 4-5 minutes
(3) Finishing - Tomonagura - 5-6 minutes
(4) False Edge removal - Raxa hone - 10 seconds
(5) Edge Finishing - Honyama Hone - Japanese made folding razor 10 min; Kamisori/Imported
Razor/Iwasaki Razor 15 minutes.

In the above, most people might not notice that the final step, "Edge Finishing," takes 10-15
minutes. But when you try it, it will become clear.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

No, I think he meant honing time, post Jointing, honing to the new edge not the actual jointing technique.
At least that, is how I interpret it.

Here is the Honing Time section.

The point he was trying to make is, as the grit progresses, pressure decreases and time on the stone increases.

And that is about right, what it takes to make the bevels meet the new edge on a high grit stone.

3-Honing Time
Many people think that when they hone on coarse abrasives, they should spend a lot of time, then
gradually reduce their honing time as they move to finer honing. However, in reality, the opposite is
true: they should be gradually increasing the time. When you hone with pressure on coarse
particles, you not only remove chips in the edge, but also wear away the steel of the spine and
blade. Honing time for both Kamisori and razors should be divided as follows:
(1) Coarse honing - Botan Nagura - 3-4 minutes
(2) Middle honing - Tenjou Nagura - 4-5 minutes
(3) Finishing - Tomonagura - 5-6 minutes
(4) False Edge removal - Raxa hone - 10 seconds
(5) Edge Finishing - Honyama Hone - Japanese made folding razor 10 min; Kamisori/Imported
Razor/Iwasaki Razor 15 minutes.

In the above, most people might not notice that the final step, "Edge Finishing," takes 10-15
minutes. But when you try it, it will become clear.

Hmmmmmm

I would be hesitant on that

I would have to interpret some of the "Time" involved at the higher level to breaking down the slurry to achieve a smoother and smoother surface
So I would not agree with this on different hones..


***Just thinking here***

This might be pretty exact to only one style of honing

Originally Posted by Utopian

The reason I brought up side honing is because that is what I perceive as being described in that finishing section of the text. It is Iwasaki's final stage of honing.

Interestingly i read the translation a few times, one might think that the final stage of Iwasaki method is to remove the false edge or take a burr out like in woodworking tools, but thats actually step 4 "Removing the false edge" then he goes into step 5 of finishing the edge by jointing the edge.

Always felt like there was something missing at the end of the article or translation.....jmho.