Thread: First go at a bevel set with a warped razor

Not my razor but a friends - a pretty nice Geo. Butler. After being unable to set a bevel I shifted from practice to theory, theory being, something must be wrong cause this blade wasn't pushing water or slurry evenly. Employing an LED and a flat marble slab I felt some flippy-flop and saw light where there ought not be light:



Bit of a warp on a blade without much hone wear. A search didn't bring up a lot but I did find some @gssixgun advice that suggested, either become adept at 45* heel-leading rollling-x's to create an even bevel; or start grinding circles, x-strokes and whatever else seems to work to effectively flatten the edge with what will probaby be an irregular looking bevel (or so I paraphrase). I went with tape and startd grinding the snot out of the blade. I didn't think it would ever end but it did and for the best.

I did some chip-free heavy lifting on a King 250 then graduated to the 1000 side. I passed on a newly-smoothed DMT325 having seen how fast it eats big chisels. Here, for me, is the beauty of the King 1000 stone many criticize for being too slow. It was slow and, as such, I had a chance to carefully observe changes in the shape of the edge as the blade went from useless to hair popping. Slow, especially for a novice, is not a bad thing. After what seemed like forever it became obvious a bevel had been set after which I took the blade to coticule/dilucot.

I really like the feedback from a coticule. It is true that the sound, feel and appearane of the blade on a coticule speaks volumes about what's happening or not happening. When I started working on a slurry a residual problem with the bevel was quick to appear in a failure to undercut grit from end to end; this was, then, easily remedied with some long strokes, a bit of pressure and some selective x-rolling. The end result was a slightly broad bevel (just toe-side of center) on one side balanced out with a little bit of missing meat on the flipside heel. I thought it turned out pretty good for my first warped bevel set.




From slurry to water to stropping and it's popping arm hairs like a madman. Test drive Sunday night. Open to your comments, suggestions, critcisms.

That warp is not bad, really almost normal, nothing a Rolling X stroke will not easily take care of.

The problem most folks have with the X stroke is the Rolling part, it is really very subtle and if you let the heel fall off the stone half way you can get the concave side of the bevel very well.

Here is a great video of

Charlie Lewis using a rolling x

on a smiling razor. It also works with smiling blades and prevents frowning edges caused by straight strokes.

Notice how little he rocks the blade.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

That warp is not bad, really almost normal, nothing a Rolling X stroke will not easily take care of...

Here is a great video of

Charlie Lewis using a rolling x

...

I watched Randydance and Charlie and their rolling-x'ing a lot at the Asheville, NC, 2014 meet last year.

Yes, the warp was not a extreme; I tried rolling-x's for a while yesterday and seemed to get farther, not closer, to a bevel set so I put it up and decided to try something else. Not exactly sure how to evalute progress with a rolling-x except by thumb pad, arm hair and how fluid addresses the blade during the corrective stroke; am sure my workmanship wasn't making improvements in either. Did I just quit too soon?

And, by the way, if you correct a warp (small or large) with a rolling-x, how will the blade hone and strop down the road? Will it need to be refreshed with similar technique?

Sounds like you should keep at it. I too use a king 1k. When I want it to cut a little faster I just lap it fairly often, pretty much when it starts feeling like it isn't cutting anymore. 4 or 5 swipes with a worn 325 dmt is enough for mine.

As for stropping I use a rolling x on pretty much everything regardless of how much or little the blade smiles. Seems to work well.

As for the rolling stroke I find it makes it easier to get too heavy of a hand. I believe this is due to the small amount of bevel in contact with the hone at any given time.

Ink… Ink the bevel and check the bevel to see how much ink is removed. If you are removing ink, you are removing steel and eventually will flatten the bevel completely.

It takes a bit, to feel, how much you need to rock, it gets a lot easier once you learn how much or how little to rock. It is really, very little rock, on some, like a razor I honed today, with a little smile, it just needed a pressure shift from heel to toe, the full blade was on the stone, the whole time, never lifted off the stone until the heel came off the stone edge.

Ink is your friend and is cheap, use lots of it, I use colored ink, it is easy to see without magnification. Black, can look like a shadow. WD40 removes any residue.
Don’t forget to drop the heel off the edge of the stone on the concave side of the razor, so you are honing the concave side, on a small flat part of the hone. Depending on the warp you will only use half to a third of the stone width. If you try to use the whole stone, you will hit the heel and toe and the middle will not touch the stone.
Think about, if you were trying to hone the edge of half a hoop, on the convex side you would have a large rolling motion and the concave side you could only use a thin portion of the stone near the edge.

The strop will flex and work just fine, extra gymnastics are not needed. You are not correcting the warp, you can't. You are compensating for it.

Yes, to touch up, you will use the same strokes, you use the same strokes for all the stones. You just have to figure out how much rock you need, ink will easily tell you, just keep inking the bevel. Go slow, It gets easier and you use less and less ink. It is quicker to use ink than break out a loupe.

I use ink too, but even when I can see where the problem area is I can't get it honed sometimes...
Good job working through the warp and getting it ready to shave!

Yes, it can take a little time to learn. Just go slow and keep looking at the ink. Eventually you learn to watch the water and see where you are making contact on the blade.

Remember with a warped blade, one side is rocked the other is honed off one edge of the stone, keep the heel on the stone until the half way point of the length, otherwise the heel does not get any time on the stone.

Some hands on time, with a mentor will speed up your learning curve, really there is a lot going on and not as simple, as explained, because you have to learn to read the razor and progress. Anyone can hone a flat razor, but few are.

Aside from ink, water is another friend. Remember to watch the water on the hone. If the blade is not pushing the water, then the edge is not touching the hone. Adjust your stroke so that the the water is being pushed.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Ink… Ink the bevel and check the bevel to see how much ink is removed...

Yes, to touch up, you will use the same strokes, you use the same strokes for all the stones. You just have to figure out how much rock you need, ink will easily tell you, just keep inking the bevel. Go slow, It gets easier and you use less and less ink. It is quicker to use ink than break out a loupe.

Ink of course; I got absorbed in the moment. I need to keep a Sharpie with the stones.

I agree with what Euclid is saying about using a rolling X stroke and how to go about it. Most all of my vintage razors have a warp/twist to some degree or other making learning the rolling X stoke a must. By using it you are not "correcting" the warp/twist just compensating for the warp/twist.

Bob