Results 11 to 19 of 19
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10-16-2015, 08:52 PM #11
Might be 45 minutes, might be a couple of hours ..... .
Use the same procedure with the 4k as you do with any bevel set. Thumb nail test, shaving leg or arm hair, and especially examining the edge under magnification. Doesn't have to be a high power microscope, a 30X eye loupe is what I have, though you could do it with less.
Here is a link to 'Alternative Honing Approaches' in the SRP Library, It is pretty much from an email that Randydance sent to me to answer my newbie questions on bevel setting and pyramid honing. He said, in another conversation, that you can set a bevel with the 4k, just takes longer. Sometimes significantly longer. Depending on the blade.
Honing - Alternative approaches - Straight Razor Place LibraryBe careful how you treat people on your way up, you may meet them again on your way back down.
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10-16-2015, 08:54 PM #12
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- Mar 2012
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- Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
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Thanked: 3228Ok, whatever you want to do. Regarding Naniwas nobody ever said they were worth dumping a working set of hones for or even inferred it. Wondering where you were going with that? Can't say for sure if the different lines of Naniwas all behave the same or not having only used one line. If the edge is good then I'd imagine all the tests would feel the same as with other hones but I just go by what the edge looks like magnified by a loupe.
There must be something in the millions of threads on honing with a 4/8K waterstone that say how the honer determines if a blade is ready to move on up the progression. People use different methods probably. Can't see how setting a bevel on a 4K is much different from setting it on a 3K just might take a tad longer on the finer hone. Just get the bevels to meet all along the apex.
BobLife is a terminal illness in the end
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10-16-2015, 08:56 PM #13
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- Apr 2012
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- Diamond Bar, CA
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Thanked: 3215Impossible to say, TPT is only learned or “calibrated” by feeling a lot of known edges. A set bevel is sharp enough to cut through the first layer of skin with just a bit of pressure. But even a fully calibrated, TPT will not tell you if the edge is “fully” set and/or if there is chipping at the edge. Feel some razor blades and utility blade and compare.
I use a combination of test, some hair test, for progress, TPT and visual tests for conformation with magnification, looking straight down for meeting bevels and from the side for chips and deep stria (that can lead to chipping.
Looking at an edge is the most comprehensive test.
Only looking at the edge straight down, with magnification will tell you if the bevel is completely set, has a chip and if the bevels are fully meeting from heel to toe. But it takes time and can be a pain in the butt to stop and look.
As you gain more experience you will need less visual testing and TPT will tell you if you are heading in the right direction, experience will fill in the rest, but it takes time to develop these skills.
I usually check visually, looking straight down before moving up in grits, once it has passed the TPT as a confirmation, looking for anomalies. Here less magnification is better,60X or less and as little as,10x or in good light the naked eye, once you know what to look for. With less magnification you can see more of the edge at time. At 400X, it can take a while to check a whole bevel looking straight down on it, you don’t need that much magnification to spot a problem,
The photos linked to in post 4 will show you what to look for.
Once you see an issue, more magnification may tell you what is causing the problem.
And there is a difference in the stones, or Naniwa would only make one stone, not all stones are capable of honing razors. Stones are made for different uses, and while all 4k stone may contain abrasives of up to 4k size, how the binder releases the grit to refresh the stone can play as important a roll as the grit itself.
Razor honing is a very small part of the honing/stone market, and we make do with the small portion of the stone that work, most do not. The vast majority are made to sharpen a variety of tools. Really when we look at the stones that are proven performers, the list is very small.
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The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Euclid440 For This Useful Post:
s0litarys0ldier (10-16-2015), tinkersd (12-20-2016)
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10-16-2015, 09:11 PM #14
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10-17-2015, 12:30 AM #15
You can set a bevel on a 4K stone but a 1k is way faster, like 10x's faster. Once you get to where you think you're done setting the bevel try shaving some arm hair, go back to the stone do 10-15 more light finishing strokes and try cutting arm hair again, does it cut easier? If so do a few more, at some point it will stop getting sharper, take note of how it cuts. Make sure it cuts along the entire edge wit the same amount of ease. Make sure your hone is lapped. When the hone doesn't seem to be cutting as effcientoy as it did when you freshly lapped it, lap it again, it will clear the swarf and expose now sharper particles. When your edge is starting to come together stop lapping, the resulting bevels will smoother and leave you less work on the next hone.
Once you start reliably setting the bevel honing becomes less frustrating and more rewarding. When you move to the next grit in your progression make sure you have gotten all the scratches out from the previous hone. Don't move on until you do. You will really get the hang of it after 30-40 full bevel sets and complete honings.
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10-17-2015, 01:51 AM #16
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The Following User Says Thank You to onimaru55 For This Useful Post:
s0litarys0ldier (10-17-2015)
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10-17-2015, 02:03 AM #17
Oz, thank you very much. That cleared up a lot of what I was wondering.. That white line along the edge showed up at my 8k which I was finishing on.. I really feel the shaves from edges that I have developed this on are extremely rough. I've got a loupe but really find when I rely heavily on scratch patterns I get this white line.
As to the edge restore or bevel set. I mean I get a crappy shaving edge and want to start from ground 0 so I joint and now I want to hit the 4k to set the bevel. If the bevel is really mangled I'll hit 1k without a doubt.. I mean a light bevel reset.
I'll have to try another razor and shave off the 4k.. I took that razor on a trip with me this weekend and brought no back up razors... Uh oh.. I killed the edge and used the two barber hones I brought along to whip up a shave ready edge. I digress,
I've got the perfect razor at home that needs a bevel set on the 4k.
Once again thank you.
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10-17-2015, 02:10 AM #18
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10-17-2015, 02:19 AM #19
I was under the assumption there was some special voodoo magic about 4k bevel setting. Funny, now it's just like a 1k bevel set only the edge is more refined so some of the felt tpt sensations will be different(of course). I think I just haven't tpt a 4k edge in my life or an 8k edge but I'm very fond of my 1k and finished edge tpt sensations, this is where my trouble lies.. Lookie here.. I'm figuring stuff out
Last edited by s0litarys0ldier; 10-17-2015 at 02:29 AM.