Thread: The difference in 4k bevel setting and the differences to look for.

Well I'm officially new to the whole 1-4-8 progression.. It seems like everything I've learned using naturals and barber bones isn't much help, my strokes are even longer and the feedback is much different but still a 1-4/8 seems fairly straightforward..

I've only attempted 2 razors while didn't shave well at all, and feel silly that I can get a great edge using other methods but the easiest method I don't know squat about. So I develop a white line at the edge looking from the side of the razor.. I feel like once you see this you are SOL (overhoned) and must reset the bevel. That's all fine and dandy except. The tests I have come to be fond of don't respond the same to a 4k bevel set. I would rather use the 4k and save steel but have no clue what I'm looking for, sensation wise.

I have only had these naniwas for a day so I didn't excpect to nail an edge.. But to at least get something shaveable...

What are the main differences between a 1k and 4k bevel set. How do you know the bevel is set on the 4k? Because at th 1k I can pop hair a few mm above skin but after 4k nothing.. Because the edge gets smoother? Less toothy? And that sharpness won't come back around till 8k?

No expert, but when I see a thin white line at the edge I take it to mean I have not honed out to the edge. Maybe lighten up on the weight applied while honing on the 4K hone. Are you using a Nani 3K hone?

Bob

I never use the above the skin test until 8k as it can be unreliable before that. At skin level there should be a difference between a 1k and 4k with less effort to cut and even more so at 8k, for my hair, tree topping starts at 8k and will top even better after my finishing stone and the CrOx paddle.

Which stones are you using and did you lap and round or bevel the edges well. Some need to be lapped a couple times to get a good edge.

Sounds like you do not have a bevel set edge and are only getting a partial set at 8K, this is not uncommon. Photos would help.

First get good magnification, lighted 60X and make sure the bevel is fully set from heel to toe, and use ink to ensure, the bevel is completely flat. Looking from the side will tell you if your edge is straight and chip free, but not if it is fully set, (and meeting).

Here is a good post (My first honing attempt with photos) very similar to what you are asking. Post 41 shows what a fully set bevel looks like. Look straight down on the edge. Hair test are hit & miss.

A good, properly prepped 4k can absolutely set a bevel quickly, but if you have to do repair a 1k is quicker and can often save metal when used properly, as odd as that sounds…

Clarify please what these hones are. Naniwa does not make a 4k as far as I know.

Naniwa gouken Hayabusa and Fuji. Not very common but a 4k and 8k stone.

Y'all learn something new everyday. Not any difference between them and the regular naniwas I don't think.. Just made for Japanese market.

Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

Naniwa gouken Hayabusa and Fuji. Not very common but a 4k and 8k stone.

OK then, they are not what a lot of people use on here. Most use Nani SS or Chosera type hones in that progression. Not may may even know what to expect from them. OTH I still think you have not honed to the edge either by too much weight or the bevel was not really set on the 1k first.

Bob

Originally Posted by rodb

I never use the above the skin test until 8k as it can be unreliable before that. At skin level there should be a difference between a 1k and 4k with less effort to cut and even more so at 8k, for my hair, tree topping starts at 8k and will top even better after my finishing stone and the CrOx paddle.

See I'm not used to the tree topping only at 8k. Usually it has been much earlier but I was using other methods. Thanks rob! I know I'm not crazy. I'll arm hair skin level at 4k and then after 8 tree top. Going to use Lynn's circle method.

Mostly I just wanted to know how to tell when a bevel is set on a 4k

Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

What are the main differences between a 1k and 4k bevel set.

Might be 45 minutes, might be a couple of hours ..... . Use the same procedure with the 4k as you do with any bevel set. Thumb nail test, shaving leg or arm hair, and especially examining the edge under magnification. Doesn't have to be a high power microscope, a 30X eye loupe is what I have, though you could do it with less.

Here is a link to 'Alternative Honing Approaches' in the SRP Library, It is pretty much from an email that Randydance sent to me to answer my newbie questions on bevel setting and pyramid honing. He said, in another conversation, that you can set a bevel with the 4k, just takes longer. Sometimes significantly longer. Depending on the blade.

Honing - Alternative approaches - Straight Razor Place Library

Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

I've only attempted 2 razors while didn't shave well at all, and feel silly that I can get a great edge using other methods but the easiest method I don't know squat about. So I develop a white line at the edge looking from the side of the razor.. I feel like once you see this you are SOL (overhoned) and must reset the bevel.

Not really. A shiny line can be an incomplete bevel. You will not easily see it at 1k as all the scratches can hide the reflected light. You can also develop a slight convexity at the early stones that will become obvious at the finisher when the bevel is shinier ie the edge is not honed straight away, especially if your pressure is too heavy. Hone lighter than you think you need too & the edge will always sharpen up.
White line can also be a burr, small or otherwise. Often cleans up on the next stone. Hard to assess any of this without a good loupe .

I have only had these naniwas for a day so I didn't excpect to nail an edge.. But to at least get something shaveable...
Yeah , Nahh ... going to synthetics from natural has its challenges too.

What are the main differences between a 1k and 4k bevel set. Bevel set or edge restore ?
How do you know the bevel is set on the 4k? A bevel set simply means the next stone will improve the edge,regardless of stone used.. The 4k will show your faults at the 1k & the 8k the same of your 4k
Because at th 1k I can pop hair a few mm above skin but after 4k nothing.. As above. popping hair does not mean the bevel is optimal. You have to determine what it means to you, like the infamous HHT.
Because the edge gets smoother? Less toothy? And that sharpness won't come back around till 8k?
I'm curious. Strop your edge at 4k & see what happens.

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