Thread: Interesting Blog about Edge Development.

Originally Posted by Marshal

Agreed, and that is why the shave test should always be the guide and definitive factor. If it shaves, let well enough alone.

Yes sir, but who can do that.

Bob

A lot about honing has always been shrouded in mystery, because we cannot see the actual edge even at 400X.

There is nothing wrong with seeing the results of honing at 500x plus magnification. The more you can see the more you understand the process and more importantly the result of your actions.

I doubt most folks use over 100X for daily honing, other than to document or to learn.

I have used a 60-100 X scope and lately a lighted 40x loupe for honing just for a quick look. Often micro-chips will not be seen at lower than 60X and using an unlighted loupe is much more difficult.

I do not understand why some are so against using magnification or someone obsessing over a perfect edge.

No one complains about obsessive, Jnat and other natural honing, heck they even make long, boring OCD, videos of a razor, sliding back and forth across a stone or of narrated vids of touching a hair to an edge and folks think that great.

If that’s you thing, knock yourself out, it does not hurt anyone.

If you are new to honing or trying to learn more, 100X plus magnification can teach you a lot about the process. Use it if you want, don’t if you do not. But don’t tell new guys they don’t need it… they just might.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

I do not understand why some are so against using magnification or someone obsessing over a perfect edge.

No one complains about obsessive, Jnat and other natural honing, heck they even make long, boring OCD, videos of a razor, sliding back and forth across a stone or of narrated vids of touching a hair to an edge and folks think that great.

If that’s you thing, knock yourself out, it does not hurt anyone.

If you are new to honing or trying to learn more, 100X plus magnification can teach you a lot about the process. Use it if you want, don’t if you do not. But don’t tell new guys they don’t need it… they just might.

There is nothing wrong if you want to OCD about any endevour. I used to use info gleamed from benchrest shooters that would be useful to me when I was long range rifle match shooting at ranges up to 1000 yds using target peep sights. Always nice to have a rifle large caliber tuned to give sub MOA groups, closer to 1/2 inch, at 100 yards off a bench. Unfortunately there are damn few 1 MOA shooters when you are standing on your hind legs shooting while hunting or even prone with a sling. Some times you really only need so much to get the job done well, the rest being over kill to a large extent. I view honing the same way. I am not telling anyone not to use high magnification just saying it may not be entirely necessary in order to produce an edge the shaves well and comfortably.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

Yes sir, but who can do that.

Bob

Judging by history...not this guy lol.

Come on 99 percent of what we do here is over kill.

Spend days, weeks hand sanding a pitted razor…

Point is if you want to and enjoy doing it, what’s the harm?

i never meant to suggest extreme magnification is necessary or even useful in honing a razor. Too much is just like chasing a compass, you get bogged down by the minutia & never get anywhere. It's just interesting that the guy took pictures of his razor in an sem after each hone. Pretty pictures that help illustrate how scratches and the apex are slowly refined at each stage. I know it's hardly definitive as we only get to see 0.01mm of one blade hone by one person on one set of hones.

That being said I do believe just like Euclid said that some higher magnifications can be useful as a learning tool or possibly as diagnostic tool but not for every day use, and certainly not 5000x.

Nuff said on magnification as it is another subject similar to the "old tape or don't tape the spine". Like everything else in this sport you use what works for you.

Bob

Originally Posted by Marshal

This is true. But the foil to that is, if I see something that catches my eye at high magnification, then I drop back down and look at the same spot under 20x. Now I see something amiss that didn't catch my eye the first once over at 20x. I've identified that there IS a problem because it can be seen at low magnification. I know where it is. And I know what to look for in the future under both levels of magnification.

I view it as another learning tool. Viewing various issues at varying magnifications will train your eye to spot the problem just like feeling an edge that won't shave and comparing it to one that will can calibrate your thumb and train it to feel a problem area without a lick of magnification. It helps to see that problem area under magnification before you put your thumb pad against the edge, as well as having a good edge to compare it to. Just like it helps to see an edge at high magnification, then step back down to see if you can spot the reason it won't shave at low magnification. Maybe in a few months you don't need/want high magnification often, in a couple of years you don't need/want any for most blades. No shame in having a set of training wheels to fall back on until you've learned to ride comfortably without 'em.

Referring to your comment in the first paragraph - if a problem is restricted to just one 'spot' that can only be seen at 60 plus magnification, then it's unlikely that this is the cause of a poor shave. The issue becomes one of relevance - if your bevel is good at 20 magnification, it's good to go. If, on the other hand, you can see a problem at 10 or 20 times magnification, then you may be able to identify the problem. To my mind, it doesn't need any greater magnification than this, purely because my skin can tolerate imperfections of this magnitude.

I don’t think it is so much revealing a problem, that SEM edge photos show, but the effects of technique and honing practices, like different grits and types stones, stropping and polishing with paste have on an edge, that are most illuminating.

Locating issues, causes and repairs, are still left to the interpretation of the viewer. We see that all the time here, at much lower resolution where members, see different issues and offer varied solutions.

In some ways is it much like a Dyno, the car that produces the most torque or horsepower, does not always win the race, but it does tell the builders if they are headed in the right direction.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

I don’t think it is so much revealing a problem, that SEM edge photos show, but the effects of technique and honing practices, like different grits and types stones, stropping and polishing with paste have on an edge, that are most illuminating.

Locating issues, causes and repairs, are still left to the interpretation of the viewer. We see that all the time here, at much lower resolution where members, see different issues and offer varied solutions.

In some ways is it much like a Dyno, the car that produces the most torque or horsepower, does not always win the race, but it does tell the builders if they are headed in the right direction.

Well in that case, I'll continue to rely on my thumb pad test - it's the one I automatically use before any other - and the one that tells me when to put the hones away.