Thread: Need help after honing...

Hi,

I have a very nice razor that gave excellent shaves when I first got it from a member here. The shaves were really smooth, not painful, and close in one go. The quality degraded since I first got it to the point where it was painful to shave my lip and chin area, so I decided I needed to hone it up. I have the SpyderCo fine and ultra fine stones.

When I began, the razor could barely cut my arm hair and when it did, it was more of a pull than a clean cut. I did 10 laps on the fine, 20 on the ultra-fine. I tried the arm-hair test and was amazed by how the hairs just popped. I then stropped; 20 passes on the linen, 40 on the strop itself. I then showered, and shaved.

The shave was as painful as it was before I honed the razor. I could tell it was cutting, but I could feel pull around the lip and chin area as well. The shave was as close as it was before, but with more effort and I got nicked a couple times.

Now I am wondering, what should the next step be? Should I try to hone it up more, or should I try to strop more? How can I test the sharpness of the razor? I know about the thumb test but I could never understand it. Can you describe the successful arm-hair test, and what it should do?

Thanks,
E

Unfortunatly, the only true test of a straight is the shave test which as you noted, did not go well. The other tests such as the thumb pad test, the arm hair test, the hanging hair test and so on are tests that you need to develop for yourself. They do not indicate shave readiness by themselves but rather only after you've *calibrated* them for your personal situation. Your thumb, arm hair and source of hair for the HHT can be very different to the next gents and so there is no direct correlation between your arm hair test and mine. The arm hair test is normally done with the blade not touching the skin... the hairs should pop while the blade is an 1/8' or more above the skin surface. It doesn't work for me, my arm hair is way to fine and soft so there you go... test is useless for me.

Unfortunately, I can't give you an exact amount of laps on your hones but it's clear your razor is not sharp enough yet and I would think you'd need to do a bit more on the fine hone and plenty more on the ultra fine one. I have the UF and when I've used it, I've had to do at least 50 laps to get much out of it. I hear the fine hone is quite fast so perhaps 10 or 20 more laps on it and then try 20+ laps on the UF and test shave. If it's close, more laps on the UF should bring it home... if it still feels not so good, then try a few more on the fine and then redo the UF. The UF won't really hone the edge (mine sure doesn't) it just polishes the edge that is there. If it's not sharp coming off the fine, the UF can't make up the difference.

Perhaps someone who is more familiar with the Spyderco hones will chime in as to how much of an effort it takes with those hones.

Regards

Christian

You didn't say how many shaves you got from the razor. In general the idea is to catch the razor as soon as you notice a degradation in the shave be it after 15 shaves or 100. That way it doesn't take much to get it back up to snuff. I don't use your stones so I can't help you there but if I was in your situation I'd use my Coticule and give it about 30 strokes and try shaving or I might try a pasted strop with Cr0. If the Cr0 wasn't enough I could go back to .5 diamond for a few strokes.

Another thing to consider is how the razor was honed originally. It would be a good idea to contact the person who sold it to you and ask him if he honed it using tape on the spine or not.

If he used tape on the spine (which is commonly done to prevent excessive hone wear), then putting some tape on the spine will make rehoning much easier.

Other than that, I agree with everything else that's been said. It would be good to do a mini pyramid every day, doing a few strokes on the fine and then polishing on the ultra fine, until the shave improves. It might take a little while, but you're learning, so be patient with yourself.

Josh

I agree with the above comments also.

Sometimes in this type of situation, it can be stropping technique. Edges are very unforgiving when it comes to rolling them. It is one reason many of us that do honing and selling provide a three month or so hone warranty. It is very common for someone starting out to ruin the edge when learning to strop. It's all and adventure.

Hey, so I did another honing regiment. I went 15 on the fine, 40 on the UF and stropped as usual. The shave again was pretty bad to the point where I quit halfway. My strop is getting pretty rough now...should I use the strop dressing that came with it? I havne't yet, and I've had it for 5 months now.

Anyways, I'm getting lost and frusterated with this...I feel like I'm doing more damage than good.

You should be able to strop all day without it getting rough so something is wrong with your stropping. You might want to consider sending the razor out to get done and get yourself a cheap eboy special and practice with that. As far as your razor goes it might need some work on a hone like a norton 8K or a coticule. hard to say witout seeing it.

Hi eanzenberg et al.

Great thread with some great advice. Here's $0.02 worth from a new but not young guy.

Assuming your honing skills are adequate & at the risk of offending my fellow Spyderco aficionados. I find they are not the ideal hone for every razor. I know it sounds like heresy but different steels like different hones and you may do better with a progression of waterstones rather than the Spydies. If you persist with them, I recommend at least a final polish on a Chinese waterstone or such and then appropriate stropping might get you by... I think this was already suggested ?

Possibly the steel in your razor is of a very hard temper & may be microchipping on the Spydies, giving you a bitey but unsmooth edge. Friction between equally hard surfaces causes wear but a soft and a hard surface will wear less resulting in a polish. That's why big-end bearings on a crankshaft are bronze rather than hardened steel.

A microscope or a jeweller's loupe would also remove a lot of the guesswork as you can see what is actually happening.

Hang in there, You'll succeed.

Cheers
Os

Hey guys, here is another update. I decided to do another careful honing regiment before sending it off to a honemeister before I really mess up the blade. I did 10 passes on the Fine, 30 on the UF. I did 10 on the linen, then I rubbed the latigo up and down with my hands. When I stropped the latigo it was much smoother than before...it used to drag a bit but now was gliding. I did 30 on the latigo, and shaved.

I must say the shave was way better than the previous 2 attempts. It is still not as good as I remember first getting it, but I it is better than before. My question is, should I continue on the regiment, or just do 10 laps on the UF until it is perfect? Or, is this where I'll need an even finer stone? I thought the UF was very fine already, around 14000 grit comparable...

Let me know what I should try next..

No need for a finer stone. A 14000 grit stone will do you no good unless you can get the best out of your current stones.

An 8000 grit stone should be able to give you comfortable shaves without pulling.
If you can achieve that, then go to the next level. otherwise you are spending a lot of money without being able to use the stones to thear full potential.

When I was learning to hone, I did a small honing progression before each shave, and bit by bit the shave improved because when my technique got better, so did my edges, and thus my shaves?

It also has the advantage of being able to slowly creep up to a good edge so that you don't overdo it.