Thread: How Bevel is Affected by Taping

Originally Posted by English

I think that it proves a point.

To be honest IMHO if a blade needs to be taped to be honed, sell the razor on E Bay, because it's got a basic design flaw

I still say this even if the razor has pretty etchings or gold or diamonds or whatever.

Razors are for shaving and a nothing else. They are an instrument and shouldn't require special treatment.

I've said it before and Ill say it again, a new razor that needs to be taped to be honed is badly designed.

This is your opinion and you're entitled to it but I really do wish you would stop trying to preach it on this board.

There are new guys on this board who are here to seek knowledge and I really believe that your preaching is coming across as 'my way is the only way' and surely this is not want we want to convey?

I could argue against your 'theory' all day but tbh I'm currently doing exams and haven't got the time.

I'm sure you're a nice guy and are trying to help but blimey do you keep flogging that dead horse..

Originally Posted by English

I think that it proves a point.

To be honest IMHO if a blade needs to be taped to be honed, sell the razor on E Bay, because it's got a basic design flaw

I still say this even if the razor has pretty etchings or gold or diamonds or whatever.

Razors are for shaving and a nothing else. They are an instrument and shouldn't require special treatment.

I've said it before and Ill say it again, a new razor that needs to be taped to be honed is badly designed.

Some razors are basic tools, just as are cars. So by your argument my mechanic shouldn't put a rug on my floor or a mat over the grill preventing his damage to it because to prevent the scratches in the paint or the dirt from getting on the floor would be do disguise the wear on the car and make it a "dishonest car".

Phooey on that. If I get a Bentley or a Livi I'm going to prevent all wear I can. There is a tool and then there is ART with a purpose.

Some razors are art with a purpose, get over it.

I have to agree with English. I too believe that straight razors are tools that are meant to be used. I also agree that some are works of art.

Reminds me of something I saw in a Sears tool catalog, a 24 k gold plated ratchet set. Who the hell would ever use such a thing? Was it meant just for looking at? I don't know, but very impractical.

As for straight razors, maybe those that like the fine, artsy razors could just buy two - one to use and one to look at.


Scott

Gentlemen, Please let's separte fact from opinion.
Everyone is entitled to have his own opinion, but don't start preaching personal opinion as facts.

Keep this discussion respectful and non-inflammatory.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Gentlemen, Please let's separte fact from opinion.
Everyone is entitled to have his own opinion, but don't start preaching personal opinion as facts.

Keep this discussion respectful and non-inflammatory.

There are two different reasons to tape a razor.

#1 To protect the spine (either due to fancy gold washes, etc, or because of Felix Unger type need to keep everything "just so"

#2 To create a secondary bevel for change in edge geometry

That is what I understand this thread to be about.


There are two reasons to use a straight razor

#1 To effectively shave your face, while being able to fully savour the experience: the smell of the lather, the tactile sense of the blade against your skin, the lines of the razor that are pleasing to the eye, the glint of the light of of a finely worked gold etched back, or the simple clean lines of a no-nonsense razor, the feel and heft of the razor in your hand. The many variables that go into a great shave that you control. Like a great golf shot, or when you hit a tennis ball "just right", when you achieve a great shave with a straight it is quite satisfying.

#2 To remove whiskers from your face.

If you are interested in #2 from a purely utilitarian point of view, a DE or cartridge is a more effective tool. No tape, no strop, no hone. Less variables, more consistant edge from mass manufactured sources, etc. etc.

Originally Posted by icedog

Okay, this may not be news for some. I wanted to know how much the application of a single layer of electrical tape to the spine of a razor you are honing affects the angle of the bevel (as compared to no tape). So I took two measurements on the nine (9) razors I currently own:

1. blade width from the thickest part of the spine(which is what contacts the hone) to the edge
2. thickness of the spine

Do you have a photo of your measuring device? What did you use to get it so precise without damaging the edge of the blade?

I may be wrong, but isn't the side labelled A the hypotenuse? So wouldn't the correct formula involve arcsin, not arctan?

James.

Originally Posted by honedright

Icedog, this is what I think: you're an animal! Kinda crazy too - to go through all that, but a great idea.

I also believe that as the spine wears down, coincidentally with the edge (under normal honing) that the angle remains constant for a correct shaving edge. Can you figure a formula for that? Eh?

Or how about this: (and maybe your above data aready has some of what I'm about to suggest)

Assuming a brand new straight razor, the spine has a certain thickness, blade certain width, equals a bevel of X. That bevel would be the intended thickness for shaving for that razor. Yes? Now add the tape. How far off is the bevel with the tape (I guess that is your Delta above), and how would that affect shaving?

Also a rate equation: under normal honing (define) how long will a straight razor blade last before the edge/spine wear will no longer produce a shaving edge?

All in fun, of course.




Scott

Okay Scott, Seraphim has answered your question, correctly. If the thickness of the spine is reduced in direct proportion to the width of the blade, the angle will remain constant. However, that will not be likely. The reason razors (and other cutting tools) are hollow ground is to expedite stock removal at the edge. Therefore, because of the grind of the blade, the edge is removed much faster than the spine.

Your second question regarding how long a razor can be brought back to usefully sharp is loaded with too many variables. Hey, I see 200 year old razors being used to shave. How many times have they been honed? How have they been honed? Who knows? But they probably haven't been taped for most of their lives.

I happen to be ambivilant on the taping issue. On old razors I've seen with badly honeworn spines, I believe that honewear has likely been caused by gents with little pushcarts equipped with handcranked grinding wheels that used to stroll from block to block sharpening anything that needed an edge. These guys would sharpen scissors, axes, cleavers and razors all on the same stone wheel. The razors would be held against the side of the wheel and ground merrily away with a quick finish on a strop.

Glen has voiced his opinion regarding the durability of an edge. Again, theoretically, I agree that a more obtuse edge is less likely to be damaged (rolled, chipped, whatever) however, when looking at the actual delta between taped vs not taped, we see an average difference of 0.59 degrees. Personally I think that is negligible. But that is a guess.

Hoglahoo,

I used a plastic scale to measure the width to the nearest 1/16th inch and I used a Mitutoyo Absolute Digimatic caliper to measure the spine width and I rounded to the nearest 1/1000th inch.

Brad

Originally Posted by Jimbo

I may be wrong, but isn't the side labelled A the hypotenuse? So wouldn't the correct formula involve arcsin, not arctan?

James.

Jimbo,

You are right, you are wrong.

In my measurements I reduced the razor blade down to a right triangle. The diagram I so poorly drew is essentially the same as the way awesome diagram Seraphim somehow posted (except my edge is pointing toward the right and I called my adjacent side A and my opposite side O). The hypotenusala is actually an imaginary line drawn somewhat through the razor from the center of the thickest part of the spine to the edge.

Brad

Seraphim,

I totally agree with all of your post except your final point. I do not think that a DE or disposable razor removes whiskers as well as a shave ready straight razor. They do offer convenience.

My point on taping is that you can also use tape to hide the fact that you have been honing or over honing a razor.