Thread: Chinese 12k: Wet vs. Dry

I always thought that using water/oil on a sharpening stone was solely to remove the grit particles from the stone. In theory, this removal would enable better contact between blade and stone ... vs. blade/shavings/stone.

Also, it is my perception that this grit removal would play a larger part with lower grit stones... to keep the shavings out of the recesses of the stone. Since the 12k is such a dense and fine grit stone I would think that the edge would easily just push these loose particles out of the way, keeping the good blade to stone contact.

Sure. I think there is a difference between wet and dry on a 12k. It's just a really small difference. So small in fact, that the edge would be properly polished before any real differences arise.


Well, it's just a theory ... lol

Originally Posted by randydance062449

I also have found that it works nicely in a progression of 8K-coticule-escher-chinese 12k-chrome ox.

Randy, you find that the chinese has enough of an edge on the escher to warrant this progression?

I'm surprised. I have a chinese but I rarely use it; I think of it as a good (if slower) equivalent to the Y/G, and a nice big backup if God forbid I ever break the escher. But the edges I get from it don't seem any finer, and certainly not enough to warrant progressing.

But I tend to take your honing advice as gospel – it has yet to fail me – so maybe I need to play with the chinese more.

Originally Posted by dylandog

But I tend to take your honing advice as gospel – it has yet to fail me – so maybe I need to play with the chinese more.

Please don't do that. I am the same as the rest of you. I experiment just to see what happens. When I did that progression it was on a few razors, not hundreds, and it was using my natural stones, not yours.
Your mileage will vary for sure. Frankly, I probably should not have made that post until I had about 100 razors honed using that progression..

It is my guesstimate that I probably started with an edge less that optimal off the 8k so I had a bit of room to play with. Also, the C12k had not been freshly lapped so it was "broken in" and less aggressive. But the edge felt sharper.

What I did notice was that each of the natural hones first dulled the edge left by the previous hone and required more than 50 laps on each hone to start getting the edge back and somewhere between 100-200 laps for a very sharp edge on each hone. The changes were measured using the TPT and the HHT, not the shave test.

If you want to try something really interesting try 100-600 laps on a natural stone and test every 100 laps. Over 400 and the changes are minimal.

BTW, you can overhone with a natural hone. I did it with a coticule on more than one razor. Used wet, no slurry. Took about 600 laps.

Originally Posted by randydance062449

BTW, you can overhone with a natural hone. I did it with a coticule on more than one razor. Used wet, no slurry. Took about 600 laps.

Thanks for the warning. Note to self: Never more than 550 strokes on the coticule!

Originally Posted by randydance062449

...What I did notice was that each of the natural hones first dulled the edge left by the previous hone and required more than 50 laps on each hone to start getting the edge back and somewhere between 100-200 laps for a very sharp edge on each hone...

I have noticed this in my coticule adventures...WTF?

Does this make sense in any way? A bevel is a bevel is a bevel...right? Conceptually, different cutting media shapes in the stone matrix shouldn't make a damn bit of difference, yet it most certainly does.

This makes me eye my hones suspiciously....are they plotting against me at night...trying to drive me MAD???

Originally Posted by joke1176

I have noticed this in my coticule adventures...WTF?

Does this make sense in any way? A bevel is a bevel is a bevel...right? Conceptually, different cutting media shapes in the stone matrix shouldn't make a damn bit of difference, yet it most certainly does.

This makes me eye my hones suspiciously....are they plotting against me at night...trying to drive me MAD???

if the surfaces are either lapped, or similarly curved i think it reduces this effect.. when stones are differently dished and worn, and sized, the strokes become different, and the bevels changes ever so much.

when folks think that " a think little peice of tape doesnt really change the bevel angle" they are crazy. a little bit of tape changes the angle a little bit, and this is a razors edge!