Thread: Why is the 1st shave after honing so disagreeable?

I agree with the idea that you probably had the beginnings of a wire edge. The solution is as mentioned, a whole bunch of stropping.
Also remember that in between shaves the edge rusts a bit so the steel is brittle and the second round of stropping would have removed the now rusted wire edge.

Your key phrase was "skip and dig", that is how a wire edge performs.
Very uncomfortable.

Although you might get many different opinions of the use of linen strops, I think that is what yer missing here....

+1

Although my shaves do get better after a couple, I still get a great shave right
off of the hone with a good amount of strokes on the linen and leather.

- Scott

Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL

P.S What happened to your bevel? That part struck me as odd, thought one only needs to set a bevel once?

I'm convexing it into oblivion with frequent touch-ups on Cr02 (I have a harsh beard, plus I'm a maniac about getting perfect shaves).

For starters I'm going with the wire-edge theory. I re-honed the blade just so I could start from scratch again, but I buggered the experiment by being lazy & not doing enough laps on the fine hones, so of course I got a lousy shave. But here's my plan of attack:

1) Hone properly

2) Do 20 laps on Cr02 and 100 laps on plain leather after honing to see if that smooths it out.

3) If (2) fails, clean & re-wax the linen strop & see if that helps. Stay tuned...

PS: one thing that frustrates me no end is that the perfect shave is SO DAMN ELUSIVE! I get it & lose it & get it & lose it... The blade seems to reach its perfect state about 3 shaves before it becomes so convexed I have to hone it again. Maddening.

I used to get wire edges all the time and used chrome ox before each shave. I've now abandoned pastes entirely and just use coticule, canvas and leather and am doing much better and not need anything but strop and canvas between shaves.

I think you may be really overusing the chrome ox, but I'm too new at this to opine. I think if you get the honing right you should be able to skip the chrome ox and you won't get so many wire edges and won't be messing your edge as much as it sounds like you are doing.

Again, I know very little but this sounds like an error I used to make and I was always cutting myself up and now I don't.

Originally Posted by loueedacat

I used to get wire edges all the time and used chrome ox before each shave. I've now abandoned pastes entirely and just use coticule, canvas and leather and am doing much better and not need anything but strop and canvas between shaves.

I think you may be really overusing the chrome ox, but I'm too new at this to opine. I think if you get the honing right you should be able to skip the chrome ox and you won't get so many wire edges and won't be messing your edge as much as it sounds like you are doing.

Again, I know very little but this sounds like an error I used to make and I was always cutting myself up and now I don't.

To be honest, your process sounds very similar to mine. I go straight from the coticule to the leather, then for subsequent shaves linen then leather. The only difference is sometimes I also hit a few passes on a barber hone as well.

John P.

OK, I'm in the process of soaking all the crud off my linen strop. While I'm waiting, I decided to try stropping on plain newspaper as a substitute. It turned my razor into a butter knife. Worst shave of my life. I'll never do that again! Hopefully the linen will be better than that.

Originally Posted by loueedacat

I used to get wire edges all the time and used chrome ox before each shave. I've now abandoned pastes entirely and just use coticule, canvas and leather and am doing much better and not need anything but strop and canvas between shaves.

I think you may be really overusing the chrome ox, but I'm too new at this to opine. I think if you get the honing right you should be able to skip the chrome ox and you won't get so many wire edges and won't be messing your edge as much as it sounds like you are doing.

Again, I know very little but this sounds like an error I used to make and I was always cutting myself up and now I don't.

Strange, I thought stropping on chromium oxide would rather remove a wire edge instead of creating one. I would also think that if one knocks off a wire edge with stropping or some other form of backhoning, the razor is left without a good edge and needs at least some re-honing.

Johnny, I know you do 10X Chromium and 50X leather right after honing, but what do you do before that? And what do you use for the Chromium part? (a paddle? or a hanging strop?)

Bart.

Originally Posted by Bart

Johnny, I know you do 10X Chromium and 50X leather right after honing, but what do you do before that?

The following progression of barber hones:
A really coarse Swaty (around 1K grit)
Cushioned strop hone
Gem hone
Lithide hone

Depending on the razor, it will take around 20 laps on each (maybe 10 on that coarse Swaty b/c it's so aggressive). I use a jeweler's lupe & that feeling of suction to decide when to stop. I use the hones dry.

Originally Posted by Bart

And what do you use for the Chromium part? (a paddle? or a hanging strop?)
Bart.

Loom strop which was coated with Cr02 on one side from the factory.

PS: the Swaty is a freak hone, probably from a bad batch. But it serves a purpose for me: it has replaced 1K sandpaper & glass as my go-to bevel-setter.

Edit: I just re-honed after the newspaper stropping disaster, and instead of finishing with 20X Cr02 + 50X plain, I finished with a double-dose (100 stokes) of plain leather. The results are quite good. Once my linen is cleaned up, I'll try doing maintenance with the linen instead of Cr02 and maybe I can get by without the Cr02 altogether.

when you feel like splurging you might try a coticule. I laugh giving that advice because it's the only hone I have but it really is a nice experience and a differnt way to come at it. And you can do 100s of laps and not overhone.

Originally Posted by Johnny J

The following progression of barber hones:
A really coarse Swaty (around 1K grit)
Cushioned strop hone
Gem hone
Lithide hone

Depending on the razor, it will take around 20 laps on each (maybe 10 on that coarse Swaty b/c it's so aggressive). I use a jeweler's lupe & that feeling of suction to decide when to stop. I use the hones dry.

I can't comment on those hones much, because I'm not familiar with them. Are they meant for dry use? I ask because on many hones, dry use causes a significantly coarser edge. If I use a DMT1200 dry, I can clearly see at 40X magnification that it leaves the edge with a irregular dented pattern, than when I use water for lubrication.

If you use that loom strop real tight, those 10 laps Chromium Oxide may be to little to really smooth out the edge. With a flat stropping surface, the CrO needs to abrade a fairly large surface. With some slack in the strop, it only works on the tip of the bevel, which is a much faster abrasive action, at the same time introducing a convex shape at your cutting bevel.

I think your initial bad shave was caused by not enough smoothening on the CrO. The 10 extra laps and more leather stropping from the second shave simply remedied that.
I remember from a previous thread, that the convex approach works very well for you. You won't hear me criticizing on that.

I would try 20 laps CrO before the first shave, and also experiment with using water or lather on your hones. I believe it could make a real difference.

Bart.