Thread: Bevel Level

I understand all of that except for the contradiction of your first sentence Bart. I believe you mean acute, as steeper and obtuse are the same. As for the last sentence, I am beginning to wonder.

I trust i haven't worn your patience buddies.

my real secret mission is to avoid beard prep. I am at times a bit lax from the full regime I have learned reading here.

Originally Posted by kevint

I trust i haven't worn your patience buddies.

my real secret mission is to avoid beard prep. I am at times a bit lax from the full regime I have learned reading here.

Most definitely not, we are all here because we like to discuss razors.

Beard prep is one factor, experience with various techniques that work for your individual situation is another factor, a properly honed blade is yet another.

For me, beard prep is pretty minimal: wash face thoroughly, rinse with warm/hot water until tired of doing it, apply lather and begin shaving. Experience and refined technique has made a big difference from when I first started out and proper honing was a big help too.

It'll all fall into place eventually, just keep working at it.

Originally Posted by kevint

I understand all of that except for the contradiction of your first sentence Bart. I believe you mean acute, as steeper and obtuse are the same. As for the last sentence, I am beginning to wonder.

I trust i haven't worn your patience buddies.

my real secret mission is to avoid beard prep. I am at times a bit lax from the full regime I have learned reading here.

Damn' yes. You're right. I meant "acuter". English not being my native language, I have been mixing up those terms for many months. I might have confused a lot of people in a lot of posts. I solemnly apologize.

Kevint, I have been reading your posts with a lot of interest. You strike me as very knowledgeable when it comes to knifes, steel and how to sharpen things. Without knowing you, I think that you must have earned your stripes over many years of being a knife-aficionado. I recognize some of that within myself (I've been sharpening wood utensils for half my life now) And then, you take on straight razor shaving...
I was confident that sharpening would be a piece of cake for someone with my experience level. Honestly, how difficult can it be? You don't even have to maintain a constant bevel angle, 'cause the razor takes care of that for you. That's what I thought when I started honing my own razors. Over the next few weeks, I got a good lessen in humility. My razors forced me to swallow my pride and get my ass to SRP and cry for help. I have a Pearson&Co razor that I mainly use to test new honing methods, new hones, different progressions, and such. Whatever I did with that Pearson, it never got quite as sharp as many others. Whatever approach I took, other razor always seem to respond a bit better to it. Don't think it didn't shave, because it did, the difference being marginally, but enough to raise a mild frustration.
And then I honed it on nothing else than one of my most odd coticules, starting with slurry, slowly diluting that to plain water as I went along. It was only meant as an experiment to see how far such approach could bring an edge to keenness. I didn't expect very much from it. But by the end of that honing session, my Pearson swiftly cut hanging hairs, to my surprise. I added a few CrO laps on a paddle strop, and now that old dog of a Pearson is my best shaver ever!
I'm not going to start yelling that everyone should dump all hones and start honing on a coticule only. Probably my other razors don't even respond equally well to that approach, but for my Pearson, it seems the way to go. Don't ask me why. I don't know. Maybe squeezing ultimate sharpness out of a hardened piece of carbon steel, is pushing so hard against the barriers of physical possibilities, that very discrete factors can yield different results on different specimen.
In that respect, ultimate honing not only takes skill and knowledge (and the right set of tools), but also a certain familiarity with razors that can only be developed over time.

For me, honing my razors has been a lot like herding a flock of sheep. One might stay behind sometimes, but over the long haul, they all slowly progress. It still feels as if my honing hasn't arrived, though. Maybe it never will.

Sorry for the long post,
Bart.

Bart,

I am not overstating anything and you should know better.

An unused or little used vintage razor, performs to a specification a modern razors usually finds difficult to match.

Tired worn out vintage razors however do not perform to specification.

Once one quarter of an inch has been honed away the vintage razor in my opinion is ready for the dust bin.

If anybody asks me, I would say that any new razor from European manufacturers will outperform a tired old vintage razor.

You disagree and you have every right to do so.

I am just stating my opinion openly and honestly.

Gentlemen who buy tired old vintage razors can judge for themselves.

They may love them like you do.

I do not.

Incidentally, if you can not feel the flex in a blade on your face, I doubt if you understand what I am talking about anyway.
Try a Case fully hollowed blade as an example and tell me it doesn't flex on your face.

Originally Posted by English

... any new razor from European manufacturers will outperform a tired old vintage razor.

I disagree.

There is no reason for a vintage blade to be any less of a shaver than a new blade. The metalurgical properties of the steel doesn't changed over time and the bevel angle, if unsuitable, can be corrected. The ability to shave has not changed with time and wear, just the feel.

Or did you mean that a worn out vintage blade will not feel the same as a brand new unused specimen? Because that implies that you are judging the razor's performance on the way it feels, overall, not the quality of the edge. If that's the case, then you are comparing apples to oranges and of course the new blade is going to be more suited to your personal tastes.

But it still remains that a razor can be a perfectly good shaver no matter how much wear and tear it has, the only thing that matters is your personal tastes.

Well Russell,

We will agree to differ.

I figured that's what the boys were meant when they say there is no set standard. the DDD in this discussion measured 13/16 at its slightly bellied center of length.

I am pleased to announce that it was my own personal failure and lack of attention that led to this discussion. That is not to say that I was wrong. I still want to think that triple taping would result in a net positive effect

However, after some attentive touch up on an Asagi and extended stropping on a hanging paddle(hand american sueded oak tan bovine over basswood) my weekend stubble has been comfortably scythed

Originally Posted by kevint

However, after some attentive touch up on an Asagi and extended stropping on a hanging paddle(hand american sueded oak tan bovine over basswood) my weekend stubble has been comfortably scythed

That, sir, is a mighty fine combination.

Those Japanese stones do borderline magic on cutting tools!

Speaking of awase toshi. One of the things I have never been able to dial in are the combinations often related: hard stone / soft steel. hard steel / soft stone. The best candidates I had for a softy are King 4000 and 8000.

I decided this morning to give this soft one a try, as the combinations seem to be more relevant to nats. Hideriyama Uroko.

This is really a case of speaking before serious comparison but my first impressions are my shinden suita is harder than the asagi. I was somewhat expecting novaculite hardness with the Nakayama but is definately lower than that. I am pleased with the way it cuts, no doubt.

My next mission is to learn the different strata from which Maruichi stamped yellow nakayama come from, (I never recieved an answer when I asked in another thread) as I am sure to be returned to academic study when the cool little lady reviews our next bank statement. --- Something to do with NOS kamisori

That seriously sounds like Chinese to me. I have been contemplating over Oldschool's fine hones. I don't know much about them, other than that most people who bought one are very excited about them, despite the very steep price. (Of course the price range can create its own hype - who wouldn't eagerly WANT such a hone to perform awesome after spending that money -, but I honestly believe thats those rocks rock)
One question though, (I hope nobody minds the thread hijack) how does such a Chinese natural ultrahone behave after a coticule. I ask, because it's not more smoothness I'm after, but more keeness. In a manner of speaking, I rate most coticules an "A" for sharpness and a "AA" for smoothness, and I like to reach the "AA" level for sharpness too. So far, I rely on CrO for that, convexing the very tip of the edge a bit with a few laps of CrO on a strop. It works great, but I would like a solution that maintains bevel geometry. Since I like natural hones, a Nakayama could be the way to go. Are they compatible with my coticule fondness?

Bart.