Thread: HAD begins: DMT D8XX for Shapton 16k?

Okay folks, the RAD is in full effect, which led to quite a few out of condition razors purchased and being brought back to shavability. And I like to think I've been pretty successful, although I know it's a learning process, and I am only beginning.

Now comes the HAD.

My Shapton 16k is on its way, to join set (500, 1k, 4, 8k -- and a few arkansas stones for fun). I've been using the DMT D8XX for lapping, which works great (based on my limited experience with razors -- it's great for knives, and if it isn't, I don't know any better yet).

So my question is, given how rough the D8XX is, is it too coarse to lap the 16k? Do I need to move to the DMT D8C? I know, I know. Buy the dedicated Shapton lapping plate. I would, but $300 is out of my budget right now.

Will the D8XX work on the 16k?

Thanks all,

cass

Originally Posted by cassady

Okay folks, the RAD is in full effect, which led to quite a few out of condition razors purchased and being brought back to shavability. And I like to think I've been pretty successful, although I know it's a learning process, and I am only beginning.

Now comes the HAD.

My Shapton 16k is on its way, to join set (500, 1k, 4, 8k -- and a few arkansas stones for fun). I've been using the DMT D8XX for lapping, which works great (based on my limited experience with razors -- it's great for knives, and if it isn't, I don't know any better yet).

So my question is, given how rough the D8XX is, is it too coarse to lap the 16k? Do I need to move to the DMT D8C? I know, I know. Buy the dedicated Shapton lapping plate. I would, but $300 is out of my budget right now.

Will the D8XX work on the 16k?

Thanks all,

cass

I just got my 16K and in the material that I got they suggest lapping with Wet and Dry 320 on a glass surface. Which I did. If you do not do a hell of a lot of razors lapping should probably be a 1 time deal if I am not mistaken.You are going to love the 16K. I just used it and pasted the razor with 0.5 and 0.25. Incredible shave indeed!

Take Care,
Richard

Buried somewhere deep inside of SRP was a great thread about post lapping of stones.... Basically how to get a nice smooth surface on each stone after lapping....
I used this system up until I bought the Shapton GDLP now it is not neccessary...
Here is what you do... I will just use some for instance stone grits here....

You lap your 1k stone as usual then 4k then 8 k then 16k
Now comes the trick, you take the 1k and rub it under a steady stream of water against the 4k, rinse them both, then take the 4k and do the same with the 8k, and the same with the 8k and 16k... you will end up with 4 nice smooth lapped stones....
Remember to rinse the stones well as you do this, to keep the grits sperate...

IIRC.. I showed this system at the NC meetup when we lapped a Norton set there

Only problem with that might be their sticking together... permanently

i don't think you need a super slick surface, in fact it may be less desirable. I have used the extra coarse dmt quite a bit, so much that the new 400 atoma i recently bought out performs it speed wise, not to mention looking flatter under my straightedge.

The xtra coarse should not specifically lead to increased hone loss either. It's the amount of material needed to be removed, not the speed of removal that makes a hone flat. though in real life the xtra coarse probably does result in a litlle more loss compared to 325.

Originally Posted by kevint

Only problem with that might be their sticking together... permanently

You just separate them like you're twisting off the top cookie to get at the filling in an Oreo!

cass

I was under the assumption that since the Shapton 16K that I owned was FLAT when it was new,that it would STAY flat until I honed enough razors on it.

Well after less than 2 months of use-the hone is nowhere near as flat-infact, I am currently waiting for the DGLP. The polymer used in the stone does indeed change shape after it is wet, causing mine to have a distinct hollow down the center of the hone. Using a precision machinist straightedge there is a noticeable deformation. This is NORMAL.

Don't assume you won't need to lap the stones because you aren't planning on honing "x" number of razors. Granted, you CAN lap the hone using 320grit wet/dry sandpaper-believe me-its VERY SLOW going. Owning 4 different Shapton glass hones, I bought the DGLP,not cheap-but it IS part of the system,and can also be used on my natural stones. You might want to view this thread:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...ners-help.html

I don't recommend you use the D8EE on the Shapton. It will load up quickly and need cleaning. If you're going to commit to the Shapton line, suck it up and go for the DGLP (not the lapping plate which is a lot more than $300). Call me up and I'll give you a good price on one. The Shapton system works best when it's used as a system - stones, DGLP, stone holder, and pond. I have stopped fooling around with just about all of my other stones and use the system exclusively. My razor honing customers love the edge off of the Shap 30k.

I'm not clear on this deformation issue Lt. was having with his shaptons.

Are they plastically deforming for some reason?

Was this also an issue with the shapton pro's?

Or are they wearing and require lapping as all waterstones do?

Shaptons, both the Pro and the newer Glass hones are made from abrasive grit in a resin binder, kind of like epoxy or polyurethane or..... It's not fired in a kiln the way most hones are made and thus it is susceptible to absorbing moisture and changing it's shape, and this will be an ongoing thing with a Shapton hone. The Pro hones when worn thin were prone to breakage and warping, the new Glass hones, breakage is no longer and issue and warping much less so that the Pro hones, but the effect is still there (I have not found it to be large enough to be of any significance when honing razors).

As for using DMT's for lapping Shapton hones, the D8C is great for that... the D8E or D8EE are too fine and not only will lapping take much longer but the diamond hone would wear out quite quickly.

Regards

Christian

Originally Posted by cassady

So my question is, given how rough the D8XX is, is it too coarse to lap the 16k? Do I need to move to the DMT D8C? I know, I know. Buy the dedicated Shapton lapping plate. I would, but $300 is out of my budget right now.

Will the D8XX work on the 16k?

cass, you're all set with your D8XX, all you need is a synthetic nagura to smooth out the surface after lapping.

Dave