Thread: A Cry for an Escher Compendium

Eschers are certainly a highly talked about and coveted stone here at SRP. As a fascinate newbie, I have been able to glean some information about these stones, but they remain somewhat esoteric to me. Perhaps this already exists, but what we really need is a guide to Eschers. Something that would include their grit range, variations, what the colors mean, the label issue, possible sources, Thuringian/Escher clarification, and shave characteristics. I feel something of this nature would really help to clear up those ethereal Eschers.

-Hank

Being natural stones it will not be possible to write the ultimate guide on Eschers. They are fine hones, finer than most coticules.

Thus we have HAD.

I have been seeking that info for a long time. Seems like Alan Watts remark about Zen,"Those who say don't know. those who know don't say" applies. Kidding aside, my impression is that the Dark Blue is something like a 4K to 6K, the Yellow/Green 8 to 10K and the Blue/Gray 12K. I have been fooling with them honing razors and that seems to be an accurate baseline to me. But then maybe I am proving Alan Watt's point.

I have spoken to couple of forum members and stone collectors far more experienced then I am on this and they have said that the colors don't mean anything. That natural stones are all unique and you have to try the stone and see where it fits in to your sequence. I have found that true of my three coticules. OTOH, I can't believe that Escher didn't mark their rocks with color labels if it didn't mean something more then the obvious hue of the stone.

I used to think that some of these shaving forums withheld deep secrets that only the "in" members were a party to.

It isn't true. The truth is some of the reasonable questions that are asked just can not be answered. Sometimes we just don't have the information.

One thing I have learnt is that the membership on this forum will give whatever information they have openly and honestly if they have the information.

I have a coticule that is quite hard and a patchy salmon pink/yellow in color.
I have an Escher type stone which is usually described by Escher as "yellow/green". My Escher type stone puts a finer smoother edge on my razors than the coticule.

The Escher is a softer stone and feels more clay like. As to grit size, I haven't got a clue, I can guess that the coticule is 8000 grit and I can guess that the Escher is 12000 grit, but I honestly have not got a clue.

I have used many different types of finishing hone including a spyderco ultrafine, a Thuringien, a chinese 12K and my preference is for the yellow green Escher.

What I have learnt with natural stones is that grit size is just one small part of the equation and personal preferences will vary greatly. It's part of the fun of the hobby. If you don't like these answers and think that the answers are in some way trying to build a mystique about the hones, no problem, stick with the man made stuff which is all clearly graded and documented.

Originally Posted by English

What I have learnt with natural stones is that grit size is just one small part of the equation and personal preferences will vary greatly. It's part of the fun of the hobby. If you don't like these answers and think that the answers are in some way trying to build a mystique about the hones, no problem, stick with the man made stuff which is all clearly graded and documented.

I thought you might wax philosophical on Natural Stones for a minute...

Originally Posted by JimmyH-AD

... my impression is that the Dark Blue is something like a 4K to 6K, the Yellow/Green 8 to 10K and the Blue/Gray 12K.

Wow, I've never used a Thuringian that seemed to be any less than 10k.

To answer Hank's question; Escher is a brand of Thuringian stone, there are a few variations like J.G. Escher Sohn,J. G. Escher Sons, Escher & Co, E & Co, etc. Escher's are known for being some of the finest Thuringians out there, but that's not to say that all of the finest stones were branded "Escher", I have a couple plain Thuringians that are comparable in every way, and there are even other brands that may have been superior, "Hohenzollern" IIRC is a likely candidate and I can personally vouch for S.R. Droescher stones as being as fine as any Thuringian.

I have created a new thread here to address the Norton issue.

I do hope that someone will provide at least a basic explanation for Hank Williams about the scale of Escher color grades.

I've been feeling the need for such a compendium for quite awhile. I put a "Hone Museum" button on my site and I've gotten lots of folks sending me pix of their stones as well as boxes that came with them. Next step is to get the stuff onto the site! I've been a little pressed lately.

I've got 8 or 10 eschers/thuringians of various colors and they're great stones. Their basis is silica which is the hexagonal system in crystallography. The coticule base is garnet and they're a rhombic dodecahedra. I say this because I believe that what goes on at the micro level affects what shows up on the macro level. The Eschers and the coticules are great hones but fundamentally different in the way they hone. Whoever said that grit is only part of the equation is dead on. The garnet has a natural tendency to cleave off the corners of the dodecahedron which is ball shaped. The cleaved surfaces are sharp and very tiny. This is why the "abrasive milk" works so well. The hexagonal crystals of silica don't cleave as readily and the steel is really being abraded against the embedded crystals. It's different. Not better or worse. Rather than engaging in something we have no way to measure such as wether a coticule is 8k or 10k and an escher is 8k or 10k, I look to see what is happening at the micro level on the bevel of the razors. The final test is on my face and that's what really counts to me as the result is what I'm looking for with my edges.

Originally Posted by Hank Williams

Eschers are certainly a highly talked about and coveted stone here at SRP. As a fascinate newbie, I have been able to glean some information about these stones, but they remain somewhat esoteric to me. Perhaps this already exists, but what we really need is a guide to Eschers. Something that would include their grit range, variations, what the colors mean, the label issue, possible sources, Thuringian/Escher clarification, and shave characteristics. I feel something of this nature would really help to clear up those ethereal Eschers.

-Hank

The crystal structure of garnet is much simpler than that of silica which has about 10 crystal forms! Anyone interested in silica is welcome to peruse this link: Silicon dioxide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, it is very interesting, BTW there is a meta-stable orthorhombic form as well! As if I wasn't already craxy enough! It turns out that the dodecahedron structure is a lowest energy geometrical structure that even things like lather and all types of foams like to assume. Not that it matters but having made a living studying polyurethanes this has always fascinated me. And Howard, here is my public permision to use the pics of my big B/G Escher and my Y/G Escher that you can find in this sub-forum for your museum. Thanks for all your work and help to this community! BTW, we all have an idea as to the abrasive content in Belgian stones, about 30-45% garnet but do you or anyone know the abrasive content, that is, the range of silica % in Eschers? And if I might be so bold as to ask, does anyone know the aproximate % of silica of the major Escher classifications, i.e. Dark Blue, Blue Green and Yellow Green? OK, know everyone can say that I'm truly crazy!