Thread: Taping the EDGE

IIRC there already was a test done on this some time ago, and the angle lies anywhere from 9 degrees to 18 degrees which means that either very, very, substantial blade wear or spine wear would be possible before actual blade geometry would come into effect.... In other words the usable part of the blade would be gone before this would ever make a difference... looking at some of the extreme blade wear on some of the E-bay "treasures" out there pretty much proves this also, as the blades were worn to almost nothing and the razors were obviously still being used.....

I will agree to meet anybody here in 100 years same time same thread and we can compare blade -vs- spine angles

Originally Posted by gssixgun

IIRC there already was a test done on this some time ago, and the angle lies anywhere from 9 degrees to 18 degrees which means that either very, very, substantial blade wear or spine wear would be possible before actual blade geometry would come into effect.... In other words the usable part of the blade would be gone before this would ever make a difference... looking at some of the extreme blade wear on some of the E-bay "treasures" out there pretty much proves this also, as the blades were worn to almost nothing and the razors were obviously still being used.....

I will agree to meet anybody here in 100 years same time same thread and we can compare blade -vs- spine angles

9 to 18 degrees... sort of like the epa... 9000mpg highway / 8mpg city you mileage may vary...

so nobody cares to advance the theory that a blade with a 9 degree angle will cleave the hair easier than say the 18 degree?

so keep the spine pristine and don't worry about the angle?

also i know that if the blade has been well maintained this will not likely be an issue... but for restoration blades is it a concern?

Jim, perhaps you'd get a better response if you post this in the forge - I suspect that people like Mike Blue, Josh, LR Harner, etc., will have a good idea of blade geometry and specifically how thick their spine has to be relative to the width of the razor. I would suspect that people who make razors have read up on this or experiemented...

Just a though

Mark

Originally Posted by Milton Man

Jim, perhaps you'd get a better response if you post this in the forge - I suspect that people like Mike Blue, Josh, LR Harner, etc., will have a good idea of blade geometry and specifically how thick their spine has to be relative to the width of the razor. I would suspect that people who make razors have read up on this or experiemented...

Just a though

Mark

Mark,
i thought about that but then carefully read the stickies and asked in the chat where the best place to place this was
i had thought the forge as well but since i was not making a blade or truly grinding it ... we came to the conclusion that it was a honing technique... besides i did not want a "timeout" for posting in the wrong area.

Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL

I can't help but wonder if you started this thread after reading my post here.

Nope i had stopped reading that thread awhile ago... sorry. I just read it all and i will still use this method i think... although i am less committed to taping the spine then i once was.

... so what happens when you do it? Do you just end with a used up razor with an ugly flat, or do you reshape the whole razor to make everything "fit"?

I think the width and the angle are both important factors in getting a comfortable shave. Especially from a full hollow ground razor.

You should look at the shape of the blade, the curvature by looking from the front rather than the sides of the razor. Its thickest at the spine and then it tapers to the edge. As you remove the thinnest part of the blade, the flex of the blade reduces and for me this reduces the comfort of the shave. Its common sense.

The ratio of thin versus thick seems to stay in proportion for whatever size the original blade is.

So if you take a 6/8" razor and reduce the edge by 1/6" you physically will get a blade that measures 5/8".

But don't be fooled that it will feel or shave the same as a an original 5/8" razor. It won't.

As for the angle, ofcourse it matters. The initial angle is set by holding the blade flat down on a spinning hone. The hone looks like a potters spinning wheel. The hone lays a flat bevel on the spine that is vertically in line with the bevel made on the edge at the same time. I believe you get the best shaves from a razor just so long as you keep this geometry intact. Breadknifing the edge, or taping the blade or the spine distorts the realtionship between the spine bevel and the edge bevel. There are reasons to do this if you are repairing a badly worn or damaged razor. Some argue that with razors with fancy spines or gold embossed spines, that tape protects the ornamentation . Some use tape to hone a secondary bevel to gain some extra smoothness and sharpness out of the edge. But changing the original geometry is in my opinion not a good idea and for me at least, once you have honed a 1/16" off the blade, the comfort and the feel of the razor is changed significantly from the original state.

Some forum members argue that just so long as the blade gives a good comfortable shave, there is no problem. I don't disagree with them. I also don't care if people use tape. I just think you should know that such a blade will feel different to a new blade with all the angles and width and tapers correctly in place.

I like to know what I am buying when I purchase a second hand razor. I like to know the history so I can determine how it might feel and in this respect, width and geometry matters.

Again I have to somewhat agree with the English-man
But would state it a different way... An older used razor feels different than a Brand New / NOS Razor.... Ummmmmm Yeah we know

But most of us don't want to toss the razors that have 1/8 or more blade wear at this moment in time.... so we try to keep them shaving....

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Again I have to somewhat agree with the English-man
But would state it a different way... An older used razor feels different than a Brand New / NOS Razor.... Ummmmmm Yeah we know

But most of us don't want to toss the razors that have 1/8 or more blade wear at this moment in time.... so we try to keep them shaving....

Not true with a wedge right? Maybe only with full hollows?

Hmmmmm I would think that it would not matter really, despite the blade contour as you move toward the spine, you are getting into thicker and thicker metal "the Belly of the Blade" so that would be changing the "feel"
But on the reverse side of that it seems that wedges / near wedges wear slower too

English has pretty much summed up my belief, the edge is different and stiffer once a significant part of the blade is honed away. 1/16" on a 5/8 blade is 10% while it will be different it will merely shave like a less hollow ground razor... for folks using the half and quarter hollows they will probably never notice the difference but those who use very hollow ground razors the blade flex and comfort is degraded.

yes honing without taping the spine will in time lead to wide flat spots of hone wear on the spine but the shave quality will only slowly degrade as far as i can tell.

my contention is that there is truly an optimum angle based on the type of grind and blade width.


Glen... the only taping thread i can remember was all about how much/ if taping effects the quality of the shaving edge as in how much it might change the angle at the apex.