Thread: 2 goals

Bart,

My issues with the Verhoeven papers is that he reports what can be seen. I can't smell, taste, or hear sharpness, but I can definitely feel it. If I hone a razor and shave with it... well, okay, yeah it can shave. But it shaves SOOOOO much better when I strop it first! With plain leather even. Verhoeven doesn't attempt to explain this.

If stropping with plain leather has no effect on the geometry of the edges, it does have a result on the edges. If I hone a razor on an 8000 grit hone and peform the HHT, it's decent. But that very same razor after a typical run of stropping does much better on the HHT. (spare me the parlor trick conversation please, everyone. That horse is dead enough.)

That said, I agree with you. If I'm to the point that I have so little time that I can't take 30 seconds or so to strop a razor, then either get me a mach 3 and canned goo or I'm going to break out the electric in the car while I drive wherever I need to go.

Originally Posted by Ben325e

Bart,

My issues with the Verhoeven papers is that he reports what can be seen. I can't smell, taste, or hear sharpness, but I can definitely feel it. If I hone a razor and shave with it... well, okay, yeah it can shave. But it shaves SOOOOO much better when I strop it first! With plain leather even. Verhoeven doesn't attempt to explain this.

If stropping with plain leather has no effect on the geometry of the edges, it does have a result on the edges. If I hone a razor on an 8000 grit hone and peform the HHT, it's decent. But that very same razor after a typical run of stropping does much better on the HHT. (spare me the parlor trick conversation please, everyone. That horse is dead enough.)

That said, I agree with you. If I'm to the point that I have so little time that I can't take 30 seconds or so to strop a razor, then either get me a mach 3 and canned goo or I'm going to break out the electric in the car while I drive wherever I need to go.

Ben,

You are right. Verhoeven's observations and conclusions are sound, but he obviously does not shave with a straight razor. Frankly, he mixes up knife's edges and razor's edges, and seems not to realize how incredibly small and discrete variances in an edge can still make a huge difference on the face of a "straight" shaver. He seems to think, as Mparker does, that a leather strop should be abrassive, and dismisses it when he finds no evidence that it is.
I have made quite a few posts on the topic recently, and I made the same observation as you: even a freshly honed razor, improves very significantly on the HHT, after it is stropped. It's the same hair and the same person conducting the test, hence the "parlor trick" diminuative doesn't apply here. Stropping does something, and it's not abrasive. That leaves only ductilty as a known and scientifically quantifiable parameter.

If someone wants to skip the strop, I guess he can, as long as he's willing to pay the price in shaving comfort, and he realizes that a hone is no replacement for a strop. I'm not saying you can't strop on something else than leather. But the motion needs to be away from the edge, the opposite of honing.

Bart.

Originally Posted by Ben325e

Bart,

My issues with the Verhoeven papers is that he reports what can be seen. I can't smell, taste, or hear sharpness, but I can definitely feel it. If I hone a razor and shave with it... well, okay, yeah it can shave. But it shaves SOOOOO much better when I strop it first! With plain leather even. Verhoeven doesn't attempt to explain this.

If stropping with plain leather has no effect on the geometry of the edges, it does have a result on the edges. If I hone a razor on an 8000 grit hone and peform the HHT, it's decent. But that very same razor after a typical run of stropping does much better on the HHT. (spare me the parlor trick conversation please, everyone. That horse is dead enough.)

That said, I agree with you. If I'm to the point that I have so little time that I can't take 30 seconds or so to strop a razor, then either get me a mach 3 and canned goo or I'm going to break out the electric in the car while I drive wherever I need to go.

excellent finish

Man it's hard to come up with more. I had some thoughts but couldn't quite get it legible.

I have already stated that stropping does create a better shaving edge for me. hht does not help me any

I also believe I can stop honing on my aoto, or bbw, or shap5k, and go right to diamond paste.
any of those alone will comfortably remove 90% of my beard, even if it was only 50% the pastes would still wipe the rest away.


even though It never sounds like it. I listen.

a shave will help me think better....................

It's funnier now that I realize fully just how bad a shave I had sunday night. I knew I had a couple of blunders on the hone. Tonight I found a tiny dink on the edge. The post shave condition was magnified and found raggedy. The alum gauge was on red alert. (previously I began to wonder if it weren't popular because it was mild) I ended up with a dozen plus little pin prick cuts that look worse today. iknow, right?

That's an edge that needs to rest.

I don't need no beard so I had to see what'd happen next.

Found one coticule'd and stropped Jo.E that was working nice. 25 lap on 3x5 N-Asagi finish 2 backstrokes for Bart
I figure that mightbe enough null what was there.
I prepped with nankafeather and lather'd on face with tobs creme. 1wtg was ok but left some.

AHA.
here's where i learned something. 15 or 20 laps on even a short 8 inch long hanging strop will make a marvelous difference. Another wtg and it is near bbs on a tender face. no alum tonight.

i have weird strops man, but they work and we know that.

I f it wasn't that i think there were some bad moves in my honing that may have had more effect than I thought when it happened?... well i guess i was the one overhoned.

The jo is too old and pristine for this scenario, really tornblom that bit me is too nice.

why give up stropping and suffer for it? It's not about time spent or spoiling onesself exactly
I just want to know if there is that point of equilibrium. I want to find clues for matching stone and steel.

tbc

I think I had that feeling tonight: the one that makes you ask what?why?

I just wanted to have an easy going relaxing shave without problems.

I'll need to find Mr. Floorpizza's hanging strop thread and +1 that


I didn't think it really mattered leather'd board or it's plain hanging cousin.

but right now it does. This blade just looks like it needs a regular strop with it's wedgy wide toe smile.
so maybe there is something to combinations that clique'

One reason i think it to be so much better is the very few passes I have been using.

There are a lot of variables cast to the wind but the prep remains the same.

Originally Posted by mparker762

We had one member about three years ago that took a razor and a barber hone sans strop on a multi-month trip and simply gave his razor a few licks every day before each shave. When he came back he reported that it did just fine.

Do you know what kind of hone it was or where I could find a post on it?

Originally Posted by Bart

He seems to think, as Mparker does, that a leather strop should be abrassive, and dismisses it when he finds no evidence that it is.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here, but I don't think the leather strop is abrasive (edit: or at least not usefully abrasive). I think the *linen* strop is abrasive, and both removes the previous day's corrosion and sharpens the edge a bit. I think the leather strop just straightens out the edge.

I think good stropping is SUPER important - I do 50 on the Latigo and 50 on the Leather before every shave.
If you don't have time in the morning, shave at night. I find that straight razor shaving is a much more enjoyable & relaxing ritual at night.

I'm also interested in hand stropping -- would you be willing
to give it a try Kevin?

- Scott