Thread: Bevelsetting on a Coticule.

Hey Bart,

What did you use after that 4th picture? Belgian blue with slurry followed by the coticule with plain water?

thanks for the awesome information! I CAN'T wait for my stone to come in! Hopefully tomorrow!

Originally Posted by Dups

Hey Bart,

What did you use after that 4th picture? Belgian blue with slurry followed by the coticule with plain water?

thanks for the awesome information! I CAN'T wait for my stone to come in! Hopefully tomorrow!

First rinsed the Coticule, raised a bit of fresh slurry, and did 100 extra laps, diluting the slurry with a few drops of water every 10 laps, till washed down completely. Going a bit slower, aiming for the best strokes with the lightest pressure.

Next probing the edge with TPT and HHT. (good TPT, HHT pops only very close to the holding point.) Contemplating for a while whether I'd go test shaving or not. Sometimes this is all it takes to get a great edge. Stropped the edge 60 laps on leather. Probed with the HHT again (Now popping hairs, but not too great). Decided that it wasn't there yet. 10 laps on Naniwa Chosera 5K. About 30 laps on Naniwa Chosera 10K, performing a TPT every 10 laps. Not entirely pleased. 15 more on the Naniwa Chosera 5K. 20 laps on Naniwa Chosera 10K, again checking every 10 laps. HHT now at about same level as the stropped edge earlier in the progression. 30 laps on a very hard, glassy Coticule. I could have used the same one as I used for the bevel stage, but I have to keep them all happy I guess.... Stropped 60 laps on clean leather. HHT performs swiftly now, hair is more falling than "popping". Test shaved. Great results, well within limits.

Bart.

Originally Posted by Bart

First rinsed the Coticule, raised a bit of fresh slurry, and did 100 extra laps, diluting the slurry with a few drops of water every 10 laps, till washed down completely. Going a bit slower, aiming for the best strokes with the lightest pressure.

Next probing the edge with TPT and HHT. (good TPT, HHT pops only very close to the holding point.) Contemplating for a while whether I'd go test shaving or not. Sometimes this is all it takes to get a great edge. Stropped the edge 60 laps on leather. Probed with the HHT again (Now popping hairs, but not too great). Decided that it wasn't there yet. 10 laps on Naniwa Chosera 5K. About 30 laps on Naniwa Chosera 10K, performing a TPT every 10 laps. Not entirely pleased. 15 more on the Naniwa Chosera 5K. 20 laps on Naniwa Chosera 10K, again checking every 10 laps. HHT now at about same level as the stropped edge earlier in the progression. 30 laps on a very hard, glassy Coticule. I could have used the same one as I used for the bevel stage, but I have to keep them all happy I guess.... Stropped 60 laps on clean leather. HHT performs swiftly now, hair is more falling than "popping". Test shaved. Great results, well within limits.

Bart.

Ummmm....

Why do I have a BBW?

Originally Posted by JimR

Ummmm....

Why do I have a BBW?

Is that a rhetorical question?

Because you can do 70-100 laps on a real light slurry, finish with the same amount on a Coticule with only water, and get a great shaving edge.
What's in my previous post, using the Chosera 5K and 10K, aims at a bit more final keenness. I offer honing services, so I'm trying to make a slight difference.
I know several guys that happily shave off the Blue/slurry - Coticule/water progression. I often do so myself. It's just that, when honing for others, I feel the Naniwas give me a larger landing zone, because the 10K leaves sharpness to spare.
On a side note: ever since I arrived at SRP, I feel there is an increasing demand for more sharpness. I'm not sure that's always a desirable course, and I usually aim for the edge that discerns best between whiskers and skin. For me personally, that might very well be the BBW honed edge. But for sending out commissioned razors, I like to err on the keener side. I have the same dilemma in my capacity of recording engineer/producer: I prefer the organic sound of old jazz recordings, but mostly I have to deliver more "radio-friendly" work than that.
Dups asked how I finished the job on that razor. Please don't read that as a rejection of the BBW.

Let me guess... It was a rhetorical question, right?

Bart.

Thanks Bart,

That level of perfection in an edge, I'm afraid is never ending puruit.

I have used both the blue and coticule and have never had any consistent success with either except for the Coticule with a light slurry and a coticule with just water. What did you use to build the level of thickness in your slurry depicted and can you show the razor that generated the dark slurry after the 20 minutes.

This has been a really good thread.

Thanks,

Lynn

Great post, Bart. Thanks. I'd really like to see a closeup shot of the edge after bevel setting or finish honing. I have a very soft vintage coticule that easily creates slurry and shows swarf very quickly (it's a fast cutter). I realize you're saying the most any coticule can be used for setting bevels. But your post gives me motivation to use the soft coticule for a "start to finish" honing session.


Thanks!

Chris L

So if I get this right...with a lot of patience one could eventually hone a razor from scratch using nothing but a coticule. Starting with heavy slurry followed by some more slurry slowly diluted with water only?

Great post great video. I took another try at bevel setting with one of my coticules last night with this Wester Bros with a chipped up edge. I gave in after a short 200 laps (I know, I am a wimp) and went to the diamond plate.

My question is , after watching your light touch on the hone is it safe to assume you use considerably more pressure in setting the bevel on the coticule and that the video showed the finishing rather then the bevel setting stroke ?

Originally Posted by Chris L

I'd really like to see a closeup shot of the edge after bevel setting or finish honing.

Here you go: the finished edge, same spot as the initial picture.

Originally Posted by Lynn

Thanks Bart,

That level of perfection in an edge, I'm afraid is never ending puruit.

I have used both the blue and coticule and have never had any consistent success with either except for the Coticule with a light slurry and a coticule with just water.

Lynn,
Thanks for dropping by. I have noticed before that we both have a somewhat different approach to the Belgian hones.
It took me a long time to figure out what you meant with your “less is more” adage to honing. It was only after I purchased some synthetic water hones that I could see the applicability of that. The principles of doing few laps never really applied to my use of the Coticule and Belgian Blue. Although I tried it on more than a few occasions, I never really got decent results.
Perhaps finishing on the Coticule with water excluded, I really don’t think the Belgian Naturals are the best available tools for the honing professional. Today’s market offers hones that are faster and more reliable for repeatable consistency of results. I would like to make a comparison with another passion of mine: fine woodworking. I like to finish my surfaces with vintage-style hand-planes, that I like to restore and tune (and occasionally also build) myself. Apart from lending a unique sheen to a surface, it is mainly just a very satisfying activity. But a craftsman with any significant production would commit economical suicide using these obsolete methods, other than perhaps in his own leisure time.
I think there’s a similarity when you compare Coticules and BBWs to, let’s say, the Shapton honing system.
Every Shapton you buy, will always be the same. Belgian Naturals will not.
Any given Shapton progression will yield repeatable results in a narrow target zone. Honing on a Coticule is certainly more adventurous than that.
I am no honing professional. I simply offer a honing service, because it allows me to hone razors, without the need to actually buy them myself. (I was rapidly honing my small personal razor collection into oblivion) . Even if someone would invent a small apparatus that could hone a straight razor to absolute perfection, I'd still be using my Coticules. I'm a romantic nostalgician when it comes to many things worthwhile in life.

My long-winded posts about the Coticule and BBW are certainly not inspired by a sense of superiority. I'm fully aware that there are faster hones, faster methods, sharper razors.

Originally Posted by Lynn

What did you use to build the level of thickness in your slurry depicted and can you show the razor that generated the dark slurry after the 20 minutes.

I build the slurry with a small piece of Coticule. The thickness was just the tickness of coffee milk. The razor is owned by a well known member here. It does not carry any stamps or markings. I believe it's just a high carbon steel razor, like 13 in a dozen. I have to PM the member tonight, I'll ask him to chime in here with the details of that razor. The darkeness of the slurry was what I always get when I need to do more than 10 minutes of bevel work, using a Coticule.

Best regards,
Bart.