Thread: I need advice on a crumbling edge.

It occurs along the entire first half, from the toe to the middle.
Upon inspection, I can see fine lines, parallel to the edge, running through the bevel. I looks as if the ruptures occur at these microcracks.
I have raised the honing angle to 6 layers of tape, without any improvement. I also expected to get rid of the problem, once I got into "fresher" steel. Not.
The blade didn't taper near the end. Actually it is a bit wider near the toe, as typical on many of these old blades. By the way, the razor is a wedge (slightly hollow). I don't have an overly wide bevel, which seems to suggest that the honing angle is not too shallow.

Bart.

Damage like that I agree looks like it is internal to the steel. The question is what caused it. If the rust was severe it could have compromised the structure of the steel. If the edge was too thin and that was causing that situation it would just micro chip but that's not the case you have there.

Bart was kind enough to not mention before contating me, but these are my razors he is dealing with. The one in question was a resto done by another member on SRP who I am currently trying to contact to find out more info about it.

Also I am glad it was not simply my terrible honing abilities that meant this razor wasnt being honed effectively. But if anyone can sort this, surely Bart and the rest of you honemeisters can.

I'll welcome any questions I can answer.

I went back and really looked at the pic Bart, The lines you are talking about I can't really make out, but I think if they are rather fine and pretty straight, that Kevin might be right and you are looking at a initial heat treating issue... If the lines are rather squiggly then I think I might be right, and this is a corrosion issue.... After you did the bread-knife strokes and reset the bevel could you see the lines more easily????

In my limited experience the only times I have run into edges that behaved like that there was visible pitting and it turned out to be too deep to get to clean steel without going too far up into the belly of the blade.

I don't know if it applies but this issue did remind me of a post Joe Chandler made about the Tam O Shanter Scotch hone where he mentioned running into razors that were tempered so hard that they were prone to chipping. The whole post is here and and below is the pertinent quote from it, "It's much less aggressive than the 4k, and cuts much slower, so I get a better polish. Plus, I got into the habit of doing it that way when honing a couple Wackers, which are very hard and prone to chipping".
Makes me wonder if the edge on the old boy was tempered super hard in the area prone to chipping ?

I spend a lot of time on the scope monitoring progress of honing--it's still fun for me to watch the process, but then again, I'm tickled every day when I check the temperature of my compost pile! Anyway, I have seen a lot of chunks come out of the edge of a corroded blade but I have never seen a crack like that is parallel to the edge. Great photo by the way. It's amazing that you caught it in that state.

I'm not expert at the benefits of multiple layers of tape, but if the metal is so flawed, I can't imagine that any degree of spine raising is going to alter the problem inherent in the blade.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I went back and really looked at the pic Bart, The lines you are talking about I can't really make out, but I think if they are rather fine and pretty straight, that Kevin might be right and you are looking at a initial heat treating issue... If the lines are rather squiggly then I think I might be right, and this is a corrosion issue.... After you did the bread-knife strokes and reset the bevel could you see the lines more easily????

The lines are extremely fine, and strikingly straight. I can see them, but they're too fine to photograph (I shoot pictures through one eyepiece of the stereoscope, which is really not ideal). Some good news: In a failed attempt to shoot a picture after all, I have noticed that they are only present near the apex, while they were occurring further up the bevel when I started working on this one. So maybe, I'm almost through the bad steel. At the part that develops well, there are no such cracking lines present. It's a thin straw I'm holding on to here. That blade has a lot of pitting, with higher concentration near the bevel at the problem spot, so it could easily just be that.

Thanks to all for offering advice.
Bart.

Originally Posted by Bart

...
That blade has a lot of pitting, with higher concentration near the bevel at the problem spot, so it could easily just be that.
...

That really makes me believe a severely rotted/corroded edge.

I've been trying to find an image of the whole blade as can be seen to the naked eye. Bart will be able to help on this since he has the razor atm, but I *think* the blade is identical to this one on eBay:

WADE & BUTCHER SHEFFIELD AMERICAN RAZOR 7/8 - eBay (item 170310480931 end time Mar-18-09 16:14:43 PDT)

Some things that should be stressed however.

These are NOT the same razor. If you look closely at the eBay pic you can see the eagle shape on the blade. However my one has beenvastly improved and cleaned by the restorer.

This eBay link is purely to give you an idea of the shape of the razor. The scales have been completely replaced.

Perhaps if Bart could provide a more accurate representation of the whole razor people might find it easier to recognize the blade and/or design?

Please Bart?

EDIT: Strangely when I searched the SRP archives I found this post:

http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...can-razor.html

Which appears to show the same blade. The actual one. But not the same scales. Am I right Bart?

Originally Posted by Sticky

That really makes me believe a severely rotted/corroded edge.

+1

It looks like that small little "island" piece is the one that broke off, causing the rest of the "sheer" to break off the edge. I hope that makes sense. Not sure, but I believe an overly hard steel would simply chip rather than be breaking off like that. It seems like little pieces of the steel are just breaking off of the edge from your pic.

btw, great job of capturing that.

Good luck! I'm trying to get an edge back on a Reynolds Washington commemorative piece, and its not going so well either.