Thread: Is there any value in this?

I honed my Goedecker last night and used my C12k with slurry then finished on a Pike Swaty with 60 laps and water. Crap what a shave and I just dabbed a little water on my cheek.

Obviously for me it works but why does it. I know the C12k is slow is it that the Pike Swaty that much of a finisher. I won't need the Chrom Ox after this.

Well how many laps did you do on the C12K, and what had you done before that? Also, though the C12K is slow, it's also natural, so there will be variations in cutting speeds and finishes. I'd assume that using the slurry picked up the pace too. Oh, and who knows what grit the Pike might be; barber hones are quite a mystery in that regard.

I find that I can get great shaves off just my coticule, and I've shaved with JoeD's blades (he uses a coticule then 100 on a C12K with water) and those were amazing shavers. Not everyone needs a crazy high grit finish to have a great shave (but when you do have the crazy high grit finish it sure is nice).

Originally Posted by singlewedge

I honed my Goedecker last night and used my C12k with slurry then finished on a Pike Swaty with 60 laps and water. Crap what a shave and I just dabbed a little water on my cheek.

Obviously for me it works but why does it. I know the C12k is slow is it that the Pike Swaty that much of a finisher. I won't need the Chrom Ox after this.

I've never had a Pike Swaty (I assume it's a barber hone) but I've had two others, a Three Line Swaty and a Noxall, and the manufactured recommends only 3 to 5 passes. Sixty passes on a barber hone is way to too much. I'm surprised the blade isn't overhoned. How long did the edge last?

I am gonna shave with it tomorrow.

Also I do not believe in over honing. Because all you are doing at that level is polishing.

You can overhone, maybe, at the 4k level. but after the edge is set, its all polishing. IMHO.

Progression is such.

Global 1k with slurry enough to set the bevel
Conk Arkansas (3.5k to 4k) 100 or more till it pops hairs
C12k with slurry 80 - 100 depends on how the edges sounds and a cold water test shave.
Pike Swaty - First time I used it did 60+
Bottom weight canvas with white soap 40 laps
Latigo Leather 70 laps. Test with cold water on the face and removed a whole bunch of whiskers. Very quiet, very sniker snak. Nice.

Originally Posted by singlewedge

Also I do not believe in over honing. Because all you are doing at that level is polishing.

I'll defer to one of the honemeisters, if they weigh in, but IMO you can overhone with a barbers hone.

I have heard that you can overhone on a barber hone (and that it is espcially easy to do on regular Swatys), but it has never happened to me. I'd also be interested in hearing if anyone has had it happen to them.

Single, I see you have a pretty large jump in grits from the Arkansas to the C12K. That may be why the high lap count on the finer stones is working so well.

Originally Posted by singlewedge

Obviously for me it works but why does it

Judging by what else has worked for you in the past (eg. col. conk followed by stropping), I would have to guess it has something to do with your easily cut whiskers. Not even the sharpest Chronik honed on rocks from Mt Olympus and stropped on God's thigh are going to give me a "crap what a shave" with just a dab of water on my cheek for beard prep. Maybe your mileage is varying

Originally Posted by Chimensch

I've never had a Pike Swaty (I assume it's a barber hone) but I've had two others, a Three Line Swaty and a Noxall, and the manufactured recommends only 3 to 5 passes. Sixty passes on a barber hone is way to too much. I'm surprised the blade isn't overhoned. How long did the edge last?

Twenty five or so years ago I bought a coticule and a Swaty from a barber in his seventies. He had been cutting hair and shaving people for fifty years. He gave me a brief demonstration of his honing technique and cautioned me to only use the weight of the blade and a few strokes on the the coticule. He used lather from his lather king machine as a vehicle.

He told me the Swaty was only for touch ups of an already sharp razor. He again stressed the weight of the blade and very few strokes. I think he said no more than 3 or 4. Following his instructions I was never able to get a razor to shave as well as my Gillette Good News. Perhaps this is why I eventually gave up on honing and shaving with straight razors until I found SRP.

When I did finally start back at it I had a Norton 4/8 and the old Swaty I had gotten from the barber all those years ago. Regrettably I had sold the three vintage coticules a few years ago on ebay.

I would hone on the Norton and used the Swaty with water as a finisher until I got some 'better' high grit stones. I don't know how many laps I was doing on the Swaty but it was a lot more than 3 or 4. Probably more like 30. So far I have not had a problem with over honing. I recall some of the heavy hitters in the SRP honing department saying that under honing is far more often a problem with novices than over honing. Mostly an inadequate bevel set.

Here in step 3 of the Swaty instructions note that while they say 3 or 4 strokes they also say to test the edge and if it isn't keen enough to repeat until it is. I have no doubt that less strokes is better if the edge is where it needs to be. If it is not what else is there to do but to keep at it until it is.

On a side note, the Swaty that I bought from the old barber is a 3 line. When I went back to honing after learning here on SRP I lapped it. It was so far from flat that it took about a half hour with a D8C. I'll wager that the old barber along with most of his contemporaries never heard of flattening their hones. At least if they ever heard of it I doubt if they ever did.

Yeah, it is really weird. I keep telling myself that I need a 6k or an 8k, but I still get these killer shaves with out it.

So I am hard pressed to put another stone into the mix especially if this will work. I will tomorrow after I shave.

I know that it is a big jump, but I figure it this way. If I go from the AK to the C12k with slurry then the Pike Swaty with water the slurry should act as a vehicle to remove the lower scratches and the Pike to remove whatever is left over following with the canvas and leather to make the edge shine.

If I could convince myself to buy a Suehiro I would, but with my results I can't.

Perplexing is it not.

I like the stropping on the thigh comment, true gold.

Oh yea, I didn't mean to say you should get another stone to stick in there, especially since what you've got is working. I'm all for having the least number of stones possible. I like your setup. You could probably exen experiment with finishing on the C12K with just water after you do the slurry to see how that compares to the Pike.