Thread: Why tape the spine?

Originally Posted by gssixgun

He gets it!!!!!

Well, let's not be too hasty. You can sleep tonight but don't take it for granted

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Well, let's not be too hasty. You can sleep tonight but don't take it for granted

Me neither.
What I shared, was one observation on one specific razor, still with the factory edge, if I recall.
For all I know the first edge I honed on it could have been not in the most solid of steels, and honing it a bit further cleared up that situation.
But I felt the observation was worth sharing.
Now, if someone could come up with a razor that's always brittle when honed without tape and never when honed with tape, that would be very interesting indeed.

I do agree with the basic rule that obtuser equals stronger, BUT, it may require a greater force to do the severing, which might counteract the extra ruggedness.
I know out of my practice as a longtime woodworker, that each wood species has its best bevel angle when it comes to planing: too acute and the edge quickly chips, too obtuse and the edge quickly rounds and burnishes. Maybe the same principles apply for shaving, I don't know. For woodwork, I'm talking about noticeable differences within 5 degree increments. We're talking about 1 degree increments, but then again, we are using an edge guided by one of our sensorially most developed body parts (the finger tips) to shave hair of one of our most sensitive body parts (the face).

Bart.

Originally Posted by Bart

Now, if someone could come up with a razor that's always brittle when honed without tape and never when hone with tape, that would be very interesting indeed.

I don't think you can ever get into definites with this hobby, anytime you do something will pop it's ugly little head up and prove it wrong...
You can speak to generalities and you can speak to "I have found in most cases" but as soon as you get to "this is the way it is" something changes...

Now all that being said, I have found in most cases, that using one layer of tape works best for me and my honing style.... It gives me the sharpest longest lasting edges, and the least amount of hone wear and spine wear.... Now you and your style might find this to be untrue, but it doesn't change a thing for me...
I have tried it both ways, and tape works best for me...
what I find interesting is the two people on here that hone more razors than most others combined, can't even agree on this, Lynn does not use tape, and I do.... Maybe the other really busy honemiesters will chime in??? Dan??? Chis???
We both get good, sharp, long lasting edges.... and that is the end all be all of the hobby.....

Try it both ways and see what works for you....
when you have tried 100 razors one way then 100 the other then make your own decision which way you like best...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Try it both ways and see what works for you....
when you have tried 100 razors one way then 100 the other then make your own decision which way you like best...

Or leave it undecided... that's what I do.

But it sure is nice to discuss these things, wouldn't you agree?
I look at taping as an available option. The more I can learn about when that option is beneficial, the better.
- It's a great option for protecting ornamental spines.
- It's the cornerstone of my recent "one coticule" procedure
- It's something to be tried on a "brittle" edge
- It's a big help for honing full wedges.
- other options?

What it is not for me, is a dogma. Whether that dogma favors tape or not.

Bart.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I don't think you can ever get into definites with this hobby, anytime you do something will pop it's ugly little head up and prove it wrong...
You can speak to generalities and you can speak to "I have found in most cases" but as soon as you get to "this is the way it is" something changes...

Now all that being said, I have found in most cases, that using one layer of tape works best for me and my honing style.... It gives me the sharpest longest lasting edges, and the least amount of hone wear and spine wear.... Now you and your style might find this to be untrue, but it doesn't change a thing for me...
I have tried it both ways, and tape works best for me...
what I find interesting is the two people on here that hone more razors than most others combined, can't even agree on this, Lynn does not use tape, and I do.... Maybe the other really busy honemiesters will chime in??? Dan??? Chis???
We both get good, sharp, long lasting edges.... and that is the end all be all of the hobby.....

Try it both ways and see what works for you....
when you have tried 100 razors one way then 100 the other then make your own decision which way you like best...

I really don't know what I can add. I hone 20-30 razors almost every day of my life and I have not seen the benefit of taping spines unless I am protecting a Damascus pattern or I have a lot of steel to remove in a repair job. I get wonderful edges and shaves every day, currently from synthetic hones. I have tried taping and have not found it to have any benefit to the shaves which is really the point for me.

I don't have anything to prove to anyone and I do not have any specific dogma other than to promote straight razor shaving and make it as easy to learn and as enjoyable for people as it can be.

I have always said if it works for you, then enjoy. There is a lot of personal preference to this sport.

You guys have fun.

Lynn

I don't use tape; except when protecting a spine or doing major edge work. Even then, the tape comes off as soon as possible.

Since I only use one layer of tape anyway, it's much too close for me to notice a practical difference. The difference is likely there; but good luck measuring it with just one layer of tape.

There is a noticeable difference (for me) when increasing the included angle on knives...But that increase is much larger than 1-2 degrees. The change there follows the expected pattern. i.e. the edge is a small bit "stronger" and a bit less sharp when making "straight-push" cuts.

Whatever you choose to do, make sure its consistent or you have a method of tracking which razor has or has not been taped and how many layers you use.

To me, not taping at all is the simplest method for me. Although I feel like I am paying for it in spades whenever I bevel set a wedge.

Originally Posted by Lynn

I hone 20-30 razors almost every day of my life

I am completely in awe of that statement.

Well since starting this thread I've had a chance to hone quite a few razors and just for the sake of learning I decided to tape the spine on most all of them, just to see if there was any effect one way or other, besides the appearance that is.

What I found, without question, is that each and every taped spine razor shaved like crap and what's worse is that they got worse as they were used, almost as if stropping (untaped) was doing nothing at all for them. The most affected was an old near wedge Frederick Reynolds which was absolutely pitiful.

I then decided to reverse the test and rehone without taped spines and once again the test proved 100% in it's results, except this time they all shaved great. The near wedge Frederick Reynolds was the worst to rehone since it had such a large double bevel on it and I was cursing the day I taped it.

Conclusion for me is that taping is stupid and I won't be doing it again anytime soon. I think that even if I had a damascus razor I'd forgo the tape and just use the tool as it was meant to be used.

Anyway, that's just my $0.02 on the matter.

Dave, you mentioned stropping untaped after honing a razor with a taped spine and that the edges seemed to deteriorate for you. We've bandied about razor theories based for a long time.

I made a laughably crude illustration some time ago on what happens at the edge level when you tape, then remove tape and either move to a new stone or strop. Basically, the edge is lifted off the stone which can prevent the edge from making contact with the stone. Now, stropping on a hanging strop for example? That's a bit more theory at work. Would the change be as noticeable as it can be when removing tape and moving to another stone in the progression or would the slack inherent in a hanging strop compensate. Your experience makes it sound like, in theory, your edge is not being stropped. If that's the case, in my experience a razor's edge that isn't stropped but is shaved with multiple times craps out quickly; I believe mainly due to micro corrosion.

Razor angle example.pdf

Chris L