Thread: Hone to increase keeness prior to coticle

Hi,
I've experimented with Bart's One Coticule honing method, which involves setting a 2nd bevel, it works well for one of my razors.

However, I just don't like the idea of a 2nd bevel, and would prefer just to stick with a simple bevel. I can get my razor to a comfortable shave point using BBW + Slurry --> Coticle + Water. I'm looking for something that will improve keeness after BBW + Slurry, using the Coticle + Water as the finish (Coticlue + Water gives me a really smooth shave, so I'm happy keeping that as the final finish).

Any tips? I've heard of the Nakayama, Escher, and others, but not sure what would be the best at the equivalent "8K" range to improve keeness prior to Coticule+Water as a finisher.

-Chief

IME something in the 1k or 2k range to set a bevel, 4k range to sharpen and then go on up. That is why I like the Norton 4/8 so much. These new Naniwas seem to be getting quite a following but I haven't gotten any to try myself yet. I found that the 4/8 would give me a good shave by itself. Following it with a finisher, whether a coticule with water, or an Escher works really well giving it more smoothness. I've also gotten real good results with a 1k or 1200 to set the bevel and then the bbw/slurry followed by the coticule with water. The key difference there being in setting the bevel with a coarser hone rather then the yellow with slurry.

one problem is getting a stone that covers what you are looking for but ends up eliminating the coticule for practical purposes. maybe another coti opposite of what you have... a hard or soft ??

Antisynthetic are ye?

I use a harder coticule to achieve this, and one which is narrow to deal with any blade. The harder coticule (actually a natural combo) has a slight green/yellow tinge compared to the other coticule I use which is more pink. The green is much harder and it never ceases to surprise me how it gets the edge keener than the pink.

So after using BBW w/ slurry, I move to the wider pink coticule w/ water, and finish with a few strokes (15-20 max) on the greenish coticule.

Originally Posted by kevint

one problem is getting a stone that covers what you are looking for but ends up eliminating the coticule for practical purposes. maybe another coti opposite of what you have... a hard or soft ??

Antisynthetic are ye?

I think the one I have is "medium"-- I say that because
I can't scratch it with my fingernail, but I don't have much difficulty getting the slurry to cut. But it will take 50 strokes for the slurry to darken up, compared to some of the fast cutters I've heard about.

Not "Antisynthetic", I just like the idea of natural stones. Prefer diamonds vs. cubic zirconia, you might say... ;^)

-Chief

Originally Posted by majurey

I use a harder coticule to achieve this, and one which is narrow to deal with any blade. The harder coticule (actually a natural combo) has a slight green/yellow tinge compared to the other coticule I use which is more pink. The green is much harder and it never ceases to surprise me how it gets the edge keener than the pink.

So after using BBW w/ slurry, I move to the wider pink coticule w/ water, and finish with a few strokes (15-20 max) on the greenish coticule.

+1 Majurey

I do exacly the same thing, I have four coticles and the two on the left (pink & yellow) are "Stage 1" the two on the right (yellow/green & Green spotted) are my "Stage 2" and I agree the greenies give a much keener edge

What i do is use the bbw s/ coticule water for refreshing or improving my razors with good bevel already. I've tryed barts method and like you i prefer one bevel. What i do is if bbw/coti is'nt keenenough for some reason I actualy drop back to my norton 4k then bbw/coti that will work. I have to do that mainly when i have honed with yellow slurry diluting to water method because it never gives me the keenes edge slurry on yellow limits sharpness water improves but not enough my personal self. So if you have 4k 8k ntry few strokes or apyramid on 4k 8k then polish on bbw s then yellow fresh water it gives me realy good edges i learn't this from heavy duty and i highly recomend it for consistant result . I have four cotis they all cut roughly the same i have one from howard with pink swirls in it and iy does cut faster but i find it hard to tell which one polishes the best. I used microscope after 8k norton on my coti edges and the 8k scratches looked finer and the bbw looked better or roughly the same as my 8k so i don't no all i no is the bbw/yellow defanatly feels ultra smooth and the norton will 100 percent give you a very sharp egde to begin with maybe you could slot 8k after bbw or 12k naniwa super stone or the 10k naniwa

I second what Gary just said in his post. What I have found in the past few weeks is that setting the bevel on a low grit stone (I use the DMT-1200) is absolutely KEY. After you're sure that the bevel is good, just do a pyramid with the norton 4/8k, then the BBW slury and the Coticule with water for polishing the blade.

This has been my favorite honing progression thus far. I am still very new to honing, and I also tried Bart's one coticule method, but nothing has come close to this consistent or effective.

A recap, I use:
DMT 1200 for bevels
then the norton 4/8 pryamid
BBW slurry
Coticule

Then I can use pastes if I need to.

I forgot to mention i have 6x2 dmt 1200 for the bevel work and that hone alone gives ultra sharp edge to begin with and it does'nt hurt to to start from begining i have found.

Try the Shaptons. The finish off of a 16k or 30k shapton is superior to that of a coticule. If you use the system i.e. stone holder, DGLP, and a progression like 8k, 16k, and 30k, you'll get consistent, repeatable, excellent edges. The shaptons are capable of flatness to a level well beyond the DMTs and it shows up on the finished edge. People who bring their razors to me for honing coaching, watch me use the Shapton system and then they shave the back of their hand. The result has been consistent . . . first a broad grin and then a giggle. It's THAT crazy sharp.

I also use the Pond mounted on top of a granite surface plate on it's own stabilization table so I get full performance the shaptons are capable of delivering.