Thread: Chinese 12K/Naniwa 12000/SPYDERCO UF

@Del1r1um:
You're right! I expected someone to make this remark.
I'm in this hobby for two years now and have aquired a nice collection of str8shavers, new and vintage.
I'm quite succesful in honing, but lacked until now the very fine hones used for finishing/polishing. I live in Belgium, and there's here absolutely no tradition in fine woodworking, knifemaking etc. Except some very cheap hones (300 and 1000 grit made somewhere in the East) in the DIY shops and of course Coticules in the few shops specializing selling razors, you cannot get a decent hone. You have to know that we, in Europe, are not used to buy via Internet and the items delivered by FEDEX. I'm not talking about Ebay. We do like to go to a real shop, seeing and touching the products and have advise from the seller.In my case there were no specialized shops, except for the above mentioned Coticules.
So I honed with my coticules (yellow and blue), used the Thiers Issard paste and went to the chromoxide. Thus going from 8000 -10000 grit to 50000 grit!
In my opinion I lacked the 'steps' in between and I wasn't quite fond of the result of the chromoxide. I thought that it dulled somewhat the bevel...Using diamond paste .5 and .25 and newspaper gave a better result, but not excellent.
Then, suddenly, everybody promoted the chinese 12K, the Naniwa 12k and the Spyderco UF on the Forum. Those were the steps 'in between' I was looking for.
The chinese 12K is excellent but I don't think it's a real 12000 grit...Maybe a 10.000 grit
My question was if You all, following my honing preferences using small increments during the honing process, thought that the logical honing progression would be, using,first the chinese 12K (because less than 12000), then the Naniwa 12K and from there to the Spyderco UF (14000 grit).
When you read the post written by Leighton above, he uses first the Spyderco UF and then the Naniwa...

Ok, that's fair. I think now people may be able to help a bit more.
Thanks for the reply.

I have a few finishing hones including some of what you mentioned. I just hone my own razors so I have limited experience. My answer to your question is "I don't know."

I mainly just try the one I think will work best. If that doesn't give me the results I want then I try a dozen strokes on another. When I can get a smooth ATG pass with no pulling I'm satisfied.

It is fairly easy for me to get a sharp edge, but getting a great final shaving edge has been a mystery. Oh, I get there, just not in the efficient manner I would prefer. I'm of the opinion that those finishing stones you mention would be difficult to arrange into a fixed progression that always is best unless you only worked with one blade.

Originally Posted by kingreverent

Hi guys,
So I couldn't resist buying some new honing stuff from ClassicShaving.
I would like to know in which order I should hone my str8 razors after the belgian yellow coticule.
My toughts are that the chinese is less than 12000 grit and comes first than the Naniwa 12000 and last the Spyderco UF which is supposed to be 14000 grit.
Am I correct?

Why don't you use each stone to scratch something like a piece of polished metal. Then use magnification to see which is the finest. Personally I don't find the Spyderco UF to be that fine.

Originally Posted by kingreverent

When you read the post written by Leighton above, he uses first the Spyderco UF and then the Naniwa...

No, I said that I've done that to a few razors as an experiment. No conclusive results so far. However, I encourage anyone who has both to try it out. Try the spyderco first, then try the naniwa first on another razor. Rinse, lather, repeat and report back.

Ok, I guess I'll go try the spyderco out on a naniwa blade....

I've played a the UF for quite a while, and in it's original state, I'm not sure if it's a 14K hone, but once I lapped mine I got a hone which improves the edge of the Shapton GS 16K. So in my opinion it's hone which take some time to learn to use to it's fullest potential.

Originally Posted by bjorn

I've played a the UF for quite a while, and in it's original state, I'm not sure if it's a 14K hone, but once I lapped mine I got a hone which improves the edge of the Shapton GS 16K. So in my opinion it's hone which take some time to learn to use to it's fullest potential.

Your post intrigued me and I just had to test out the Naniwa 12k then UF progression tonight.

Testing:
I was highly skeptical as the shaves off the Naniwa 12k were generally better than what I was getting from just the UF. But I'm a stickler for experimenting; plus I could always just retouch the edge on the Nani if I messed it up.

Ok, HHT off the spyderco: No dice. I was highly skeptical at this point as the razor was popping hairs previously. I was feeling kind of sad at this point. But I stuck with it and tested some spot hairs ATG. They popped, so I figured, well...I went this far, might as well shave with it.

Results: WOW!!! I thought the shave off the Naniwa was great. I was wrong, the shave off the Naniwa touched up with the UF for 20 laps was better. Maybe not that much better, but definitely better. I got 90% BBS on my chin in one pass ATG. And I'm pretty sure the other 10% was because I didn't get the angle right. WTG was all DFS only requiring a slight swipe ATG or XTG to get to BBS. Initial results are quite impressive. I'm going to have to keep testing this progression.

My 16k should be here soon too, so I'll have even more combinations to play with!

The GS16K gives me very nice edges and IME it generates a distinct "suction" between the razor and the hone when it's time to move to the shave test or pasted strops unlike the UF which has no such feedback and relies more on the honer and his testing.
The UF is a hone with the potential to make a great edge, but it has some disadvantages, Lynn said he got inconsistent results from the UF when he tested it and the lack of feedback from the stone are the should be mentioned.
drmoss_ca has a few good posts over at shavemyface about the Spyderco UF, and how he uses it. He seems to like to use lather on a DGLP lapped UF as his last stone in his finishing sequence, I haven't experimented enough with lather on my UF to have a opinion on it, but I'll do some testing with lather later.

Enjoy your experimenting with the Naniwa, the 16K and the UF.

What is the total number of strokes your performing on the finishing hones? About 100?

What texture does the combnation leave on the edge/bevel? Could that texture be achieved with a different order of hones? UF/Naniwa/C12?


Just some random thoughts,

FWIW I not only hone my razors but also knives made out of really hard metals similiar to straights and the chinese 12k I think is waaaay underrated when it comes to grit size the funny part is it doesn't seem to get a straight real sharp but gives a really fine scratch pattern as can be seen on the photos posted in tim zowadas site. My opinion on the matter of the ch12k is that the edge it provides isn't the best for beards, I myself have found that to my liking the best edges come from a dubl duck hone I just got but thats just me in terms of comfort and when it comes to natural hones it is also important to note that the cutting material breaks down and becomes finer. A trick my sushi chef taught me is to use a nagura (I use a diamond plate mini ) and work the mud for a good while and that should break down the particles this happens also with artificial hones and is more noticeable on stones similiar to naniwas. Sorry for the long boring post. BTW this is most notable on non other than natural japanese hones (I think this was the chef blowing his own horn though but who knows)