Thread: Shapton Glass or Naniwa?

I am looking to pick up my first hone series. I just received my first hone, a Naniwa 12k, and lapping plate, the DMT 8C from SRD.

I was thinking of ordering the Naniwa 1k, 5k, and 8k from SRD, which runs about $140 shipped.

However, I see that there's a sale on Shapton Glass Hones, that would cost about $114 shipped.

$26 isn't that big a difference, but still I'd rather not pay if if there's no real difference, or especially if the consensus is that the Shaptons are better performers.

I won't be honing tons, but still want a very, very good set of hones.

The fact that my last hone in a series would be the Naniwa 12k shouldn't mean it's better to stay with Naniwa lower in the series, right?

What say you? Do I go Nani or Shapton?

I have the Shapton Glass stones in 1k, 3k, and 16k. My only Nani is a 150 brick (love that brick) but have used the other Nani's up to 10k.

I got the GS line due to price and space, hard to beat really. And they are good stones, I only use them for my kitchen knives now though, and tougher restoration straights.

Personally is cash and space where not an issue, I'd probably have gone with the Nani stones.

I actually own both sets....

If you didn't own any hones I would say it really is a moot point as these are both top line sets of stones...

But since you own the Naniwa 12k then I would say get the rest of the Naniwa set...

Shaptons don't really play that well with others, they tend to like other Shapton stones ... The Shapton System is really more of a true system then the other hones....

Honestly though you could use either...This is just my opinion and YMMV but you did ask for an opinion....

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I actually own both sets....

If you didn't own any hones I would say it really is a moot point as these are both top line sets of stones...

But since you own the Naniwa 12k then I would say get the rest of the Naniwa set...

Shaptons don't really play that well with others, they tend to like other Shapton stones ... The Shapton System is really more of a true system then the other hones....

Honestly though you could use either...This is just my opinion and YMMV but you did ask for an opinion....

Glen, I've heard this before about Shaptons not playing well with others.. Would you mind elaborating on this a bit? Is there only a certain grit range that don't play well with others? I ask because it seems like a lot of people use their 16k and even 30k after other non-Shapton stones, not part of the system. Are these exceptions? Are some of the lower grit shaptons, like maybe the 1k and below, also exceptions?

Originally Posted by pjrage

Glen, I've heard this before about Shaptons not playing well with others.. Would you mind elaborating on this a bit? Is there only a certain grit range that don't play well with others? I ask because it seems like a lot of people use their 16k and even 30k after other non-Shapton stones, not part of the system. Are these exceptions? Are some of the lower grit shaptons, like maybe the 1k and below, also exceptions?

The Sweet 16 is just that, that stone works great after other stones...

It also could just be me too but the 1-2-4-8 seem to really do the best together as a system just like they were designed to do... I have heard others voice the same thing but who knows... My opinion is that yes they work better together and I get the best results that way....

I have only barely messed with the 30k so I don't have a true opinion there...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

The Sweet 16 is just that, that stone works great after other stones...

It also could just be me too but the 1-2-4-8 seem to really do the best together as a system just like they were designed to do... I have heard others voice the same thing but who knows... My opinion is that yes they work better together and I get the best results that way....

I have only barely messed with the 30k so I don't have a true opinion there...

If I may jump in here,

I agree with Glen, the Shaptons progressions are nice, and they are meant to be a complete system, which usually makes them a "closed" one. But I think they don't play well with others because when jumping to Shaptons from another brand, there is a gap between the characteristics of the stones.

For example, Norton and King stones lose their flatness faster than Shaptons, and if this goes unchecked, it only gets compounded with time. If the Norton or King stone is dished, the angle of the edge is higher than if the stone were flat. You could easily interchange the Norton and King because their stones will conform to the edge from the other stone faster. But when jumping to the Shapton, it requires more work to "adjust" the edge to the flatness of the stone. Maintenance is another issue - All stones need to be lapped, but "softer" stones like the Nortons and Kings will need lapping more often than the "harder" Shaptons. (not to mention that Shapton conveniently has its own line of lapping equipment)

IMO, it's these two facts that really drive many people towards sticking with only the Shaptons. For honesters, it's more of an issue of preference because they understand the different finishes each brand of stone makes, and can work around them, but for the average Joe it's about getting quick and positive results.

Originally Posted by jendeindustries

If I may jump in here,

I agree with Glen, the Shaptons progressions are nice, and they are meant to be a complete system, which usually makes them a "closed" one. But I think they don't play well with others because when jumping to Shaptons from another brand, there is a gap between the characteristics of the stones.

For example, Norton and King stones lose their flatness faster than Shaptons, and if this goes unchecked, it only gets compounded with time. If the Norton or King stone is dished, the angle of the edge is higher than if the stone were flat. You could easily interchange the Norton and King because their stones will conform to the edge from the other stone faster. But when jumping to the Shapton, it requires more work to "adjust" the edge to the flatness of the stone. Maintenance is another issue - All stones need to be lapped, but "softer" stones like the Nortons and Kings will need lapping more often than the "harder" Shaptons. (not to mention that Shapton conveniently has its own line of lapping equipment)

IMO, it's these two facts that really drive many people towards sticking with only the Shaptons. For honesters, it's more of an issue of preference because they understand the different finishes each brand of stone makes, and can work around them, but for the average Joe it's about getting quick and positive results.

Tom, you sir, I believe, coined a new term that I love. "Honester". I view a Honemeister as someone who is utterly accomplished in all aspects of razor honing. "Honesters" are the rest of us aspiring Honemeisters.

I'm a Honester and proud of it! Very cool.

Chris L

Originally Posted by ChrisL

Tom, you sir, I believe, coined a new term that I love. "Honester". I view a Honemeister as someone who is utterly accomplished in all aspects of razor honing. "Honesters" are the rest of us aspiring Honemeisters.

I'm a Honester and proud of it! Very cool.

Chris L

+1 I would say the same for me.

Tom, clarify something for me. I am under the impression that Shaptons should be lapped before every honing session because the polymer binder changes and the stone will not remain flat from day to day ? I know this is the way my Shapton pros are because I have flattened them and checked with a straight edge the following day and they are no longer flat. OTOH, my Nortons will stay flat until I wear them down from honing. I know the glass series is a different animal though but I was under the impression that they are also a polymer binder ? __________________

the Shaptons are on sale right now

http://straightrazorpalace.com/vendo...ndustries.html


I don't have, nor have I ever had a Naniwa.

I'm going to get rid of the rest of my hones and go Shapton.
I do have one already and am quite impressed.
It seems to work just fine going from a DMT 1200 to the shapton 4k, to the UberSwaty, to an Escher.

If they work even better as a team then I'm REALLY excited !!

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

+1 I would say the same for me.

Tom, clarify something for me. I am under the impression that Shaptons should be lapped before every honing session because the polymer binder changes and the stone will not remain flat from day to day ? I know this is the way my Shapton pros are because I have flattened them and checked with a straight edge the following day and they are no longer flat. OTOH, my Nortons will stay flat until I wear them down from honing. I know the glass series is a different animal though but I was under the impression that they are also a polymer binder ? __________________

How uneven are we talking?

To be honest, I never checked. I've always lapped after I sharpen as part of my cleanup. When I sharpen my reed knives, I use an assembly line approach. First I use my #320 pro on all of the knives I will be doing. I turn the stone with each side of the blade, then lap before the next knife. When those are done, I set up my #1,500, 5K, and either the 8K or 15K, depending on the knife, and go right down the line, wiping off the knife after each stone. I turn the stones around after each knife, and then lap all of them, so after the first couple of knives, it doesn't really matter. I try to keep the #320 pretty flat, but I know that I will make up for any dishing on the #1,500. I go for consistency over precision.

I'm reminded of Howard when he said that the meteorologist measured the change in the stone surface area with slight temperature variations. I guess the Shaptons may fluctuate on the surface because it is a solid mass, so the core of the stones are cooler, or warmer than the outside surfaces, which may explain the unevenness. Nortons and the like are porous, which means air holes allow the stone to "breathe", so the air that flows through the stones keep the core and the outside surfaces at a constant temperature when not is use.

Either way, while I think precision has its place in sharpening, the second you take a pass over any stone, precision is lost because the sharpening medium wears, and so does the blade. I think it is a little over kill! That's such an awesome smiley!
BTW, as much as I'd like credit for the honester, I must admit that I got it off of my spell check, and it really seemed more fitting than Honemiesters, which does sound a little elitist. After all, where do I fit in if I sharpen other things professionally, but not straight razors (yet)?