Thread: Modern Hones and Modern Straight Shaving

I cannot actually say what .3µm film or 30k shapton feels like. or pastes really.

Options do not change the necessity of what needs doing.

Oldengaerde provided us with access to a terrific resource A Treatise on Razors. Second addition 1799. which discusses using the microscope for examining the edge. they had powders and pastes.

My expectation is to have a completely easy going, smooth feeling shave, with no irritation. I usually manage as does most everyone who sticks with it for a month or 2, 3.

After that I assume further improvement depends on attention to detail, experimentation to mesh personal touch with individual equipment.

I can say more but let's see where this leads

I think, back in the day most men used razors that were not the sharpest and suffered through mediocre, uncomfortable shaves and that's why Mr Gillette was able to convince men to abandon the straight in droves.

Also consider that most guys in this day refuse to accept the fact barbers in the day were able to give perfect shaves to their customers. Guys today have no real experience with true barbers who learned the craft and practiced it numerous times every day. They seem to believe no one can shave them as good as they can do themselves. I'm still old enough to remember seeing barbers shave their customers and getting a professional shave was a real treat for the average joe.

There is something to be said for modern hone technology - Take Shapton for example (what else?) When I first moved up to Shaptons, I was still very green, but those stones made what little good that I did do, better. In other words, the stones instantly made me a better sharpener. (I can see a good ribbing coming from that remark!) Having a small amount of success really helps propel the sharpening bug forward.

But there is also no substitute for experience, and I loved the thrill of my old barber Tony (the one with the wondering eye and the heavy breathing who took a few minutes to get into position) giving a real man's shave. I dare say, though, that with modern hone technology and my sharpening skills, my shaves are better now than I remember back in NJ. Yes, Tony's shaving skillsmay always be better than mine, but there is something to be said for progress in the honing area - after all, Tony was a real barber, not a honemiester.

Originally Posted by jendeindustries

There is something to be said for modern hone technology - Take Shapton for example (what else?) When I first moved up to Shaptons, I was still very green, but those stones made what little good that I did do, better. In other words, the stones instantly made me a better sharpener. (I can see a good ribbing coming from that remark!) Having a small amount of success really helps propel the sharpening bug forward.

But there is also no substitute for experience, and I loved the thrill of my old barber Tony (the one with the wondering eye and the heavy breathing who took a few minutes to get into position) giving a real man's shave. I dare say, though, that with modern hone technology and my sharpening skills, my shaves are better now than I remember back in NJ. Yes, Tony's shaving skillsmay always be better than mine, but there is something to be said for progress in the honing area - after all, Tony was a real barber, not a honemiester.

Again, you guys are hitting the points I just don't have the verbal skills to communicate. Tony is a real barber, would it not be a good experiment to give him a blade prepared with modern hone technology to see what he thinks and his patrons)? After roughing the bevel, shaptons take refined edges to the next level. From my experience there flatness and hardness continue not only to polish but the are further refineing the bevels making them flatter than any other polishing stone I have worked with. Shapton no offense really should do a better job explainig how the hard non loading technologie they have engineered are doing thing to bevels that IMHO may be totaly new level.
Having said that, if you can't drive them to there potential, you won't ever figure that out and if your style is way to loose that same high performance material will kill and edge very quickly as they cut faster that anything other than diamonds.
I realize this stuff is overkill for the average sharpener and I don't go to my limit until i sharpen a Straight. I have turning tools that go from the Tormek to a barber brush. (I just tinker, but turning is a blast) My plane blades and gouges will all go up to 8000. Except for my Low Angle Lie Nielson Jack. I might put the secondary bevel on that monsterously thick blade on a 16000 Shapton, but totaly not needed other than it gives me more time to play with my plane. I can't imagine what I would do if I got my hands on an old Norris infill smoother.
Razors for me have been an exploration in just what is possible not just pragmatic. Pure joy to sharpening madmen.
On another side note, if you have a daughter and she is dating, make sure you share just how sharp straights can get. It is good to have a little wild eye look about you while you talk to them.
Mike

and yet, they are flawed.

One of the things that happened to me is I quit paying lip service to flattening and started keeping flat. That came form Harrelson.

In the past there was mis-information just as there is today. We have more and easier access to better information. But it still boils down to who you know and what you choose to believe.
Just the other day I heard someone say 150 years ago they did not worry about flatness as much. well. maybe but it depends on what level of work you are thinking of.

Further, what is described in a book is for novices- the voodoo of masters is lost on the newbie. Most of us know there is no magic in the stone.(the magus always knew that but wasnt telling) having good tools helps a lot but not as much as usable knowledge and skill.

a good natural stone is far superior to any man made i have tried. below 8000 anyway.

I think we are in agreement. Flat is secondary at certain levels especialy when we are hone blades that are not flat by design or by warping. I started my sharpening life mostly freehand with gouges and convex soled planes. but those skills are for the practical minded, not the maniac looking for how close to perfection on the end of a straight. In the begining of my quest, I thought straights would be so easy. After all the spine is a built in hone jig, nothing freehand about it, what skill? WRONG. I was so so out of my league because I had no idea what sharp as a razor meant. It was all about the level of sharp, the holy grail of all edges ever made. Even the most exotic swords we read about in legends and cultures built around them did not need to be as sharp as a razor. As long as we get closer, that is called progress.
What type of naturals are you considering in the up to 8000 range. They are quite costly if your tastes leads you that way. i have always been more utilitarian about bevel creation in the lower grits, but I agree, there is much excitement when gettin past the 4000 range. But I must admit in the lower grits I have power options, DMTs, Norton water stones and other synth which a place in high regard. For the most part the only time I use oil stone are slips for incannel bevels as they are very hard and do the basic job without loosing there shape.
Mike
Mike

being a bit of a nutter I am prone to falling off the edge.

because things are different we have much that is better. If it is easy to lay hands on, and cheap, and functions well... that is enough to make it better.

...i was trying to say that below 8000 man-made stones are what I choose.

You could get by for life with 2 razors, a strop and a coticule.

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

You could get by for life with 2 razors, a strop and a coticule.

You could, but for the average honer i don't think it would have a place here in Advanced H. However, there are extrodinary honers that are doing advanced things with coticules. I was very facinated by the chap who took the time to do a study on one coticule honing from roughing in bevel to polish. I will look for it later.
Mike
This was the topic, hopefully it will link. If not later, have to tend to spousal unit for advanced duties. Off.

ONE COTICULE HONING

Originally Posted by kevint

being a bit of a nutter I am prone to falling off the edge.

because things are different we have much that is better. If it is easy to lay hands on, and cheap, and functions well... that is enough to make it better.

...i was trying to say that below 8000 man-made stones are what I choose.

Answering but not answering. You are a complex nutter to figure out.